Quinn010 Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Mkns1070 said: ??? 252+ Atk Absol Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dugtrio: 111-132 (100.9 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO sub just need to play1 50/50 right XD Edited August 4, 2021 by Quinn010 Link to comment
Mkns1070 Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Just now, Quinn010 said: sub CB dugtrio sub yes gg bro DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
Quinn010 Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Just now, Mkns1070 said: CB dugtrio sub yes gg bro liechie berry ThinkNicer 1 Link to comment
ThinkNicer Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 Quinn revealing my OP set. Shame Quinn010 1 Link to comment
Quinn010 Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 54 minutes ago, ThinkNicer said: Quinn revealing my OP set. Shame i mean it doesn't matter not like they can counter play it Link to comment
razimove Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 TC will always be a meme when there's dead members in it. With that said I don't understand how you guys fail to see uber caracteristics in some pokemons, such as the refered above, but I also remember some dev, prob Kyu (?)some years ago on Unova's release, saying they don't want ever to put things in uber again as it would affect PvE people aswell or something like this. Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 20 minutes ago, razimove said: TC will always be a meme when there's dead members in it. With that said I don't understand how you guys fail to see uber caracteristics in some pokemons, such as the refered above, but I also remember some dev, prob Kyu (?)some years ago on Unova's release, saying they don't want ever to put things in uber again as it would affect PvE people aswell or something like this. I'd still take these dead boys over you DrakeHope and MendeeZ 2 Link to comment
NOREButler Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 12 hours ago, MadaraSixSix said: for the psl team, I played 3 times vs dugtrio, 3 times I won, the 3 times the dugtrio was ussless, even the time when I played blaziken band I was vs dugtrio, but advairsaire was the 3 good players, and I played twice offense and once balance, I played original team and not filled top third, so the conclusion is that I played teams with poke not necessarily top third, and that does not my not prevented from playing games or performing (I have proof of what I'm saying on video, if you doubt me) (ah and I couldn't guess that I was going to play vs dugtrio because I played vs real advairsaire who learned to change team or teambuild new things) So people just need to copy your teams now instead of running the mons they´d like to run, because your "original" builds don´t struggle with duggy at all. They can also just play stuff that sets up on duggy, right? Like biba/samu - inferior feras or lilli, thats been shit for ages, or SD (?) zard, because slowbro in the tier makes set up zards so damn amazing, ooooor mantine...? Any other random unrelated shit mon you suggested? The fact your builds don´t struggle with dugtrio doesnt make it any healtier. And if your opponent has a dugtrio and it does nothing vs a cb blaziken in your team, then that opponent might be less good than you are trying to sell here, so i really am struggling to figure out how that pararaph has any essence at all. 13 hours ago, MadaraSixSix said: me and other players can build teams without being generated by dugtrio, and even if you trap and kill a pokemon by dugtrio you can still take it into consideration and have something that will set up vs dugtrio, dugtrio doesn't do not prevent playing games .. Being able to set up on a certain mon doesnt make it any healthier and if you can prep for dugtrio killing your mons to set up afterwards, maybe your opponent can prep for that as well? If you set up on it, it probably did its job already. Dugtrio not preventing games from being played (whatever that even means) doesnt mean it isnt stupidly restrictive in building and playing. Maybe its because of language barrier (though i kinda doubt that), but your arguments aren´t good arguments at all. 5 hours ago, MadaraSixSix said: if the players have bad team builds when they use dugtrio it could be precisely because of dugtrio ? Or because they are bad, which most people just are. Heard good players are able to build teams around certain mons without the team being bad. - Idk how it is hard to see that dugtrio is unhealthy af for the tier. It turns running certain mons - not even just offensive ones - into mu fishing shit fests. Im not playing anymore (partly because tiering in this game is just a fkn farce [,so thanks i guess]), which means i can just sit back and watch you guys break the roserade ban refusal record with dugtrio in peace. That ignorance is just baffling however, considering all the reasonable input of well known players thats been gathered already. Moi, Quinn010, epicdavenport and 4 others 7 Link to comment
suigin Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 6 hours ago, Lvkee said: How will the skill-less noobs ever manage to beat the good players in the tier!!? It has to stay!! I mean that's why rng exists, so little kids can grab wins against 500 pound (pure muscle) adults, problem is I have to do ten backflips in the air to make sand end before I can ensure a hit against a Garchomp in an offensive team otherwise I may just risk one of the things that can steadily revenge kill it. The Cloyster issue apparently already has a solution going on, hopefully they don't go through with the ridiculous idea of it simply announcing "Hey idiot, you're gonna get flinched to death, good luck!" Cursed Body Gengar is also awful, I won too many games through disabling a mon's attack and then setting up when they were helpless, I was against this change since the beginning but people who have never played competitive had the final word. Makarovs, Quinn010, RysPicz and 12 others 15 Link to comment
NikhilR Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 10 hours ago, Quinn010 said: A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep. this is legit what dugtrio does lol 9 hours ago, Munya said: How is it consistent though, like how are you factoring that because, while I'll concede lot on usage arguments, consistency is one thing usage will show, as it pulls actual numbers. The thing has a 51% win rate, and its used a measly 11% of the time last month, I haven't looked at this month yet since its so early and not much data has been pulled but maybe it changed. Either way, thats hardly consistent. Consistently average maybe. You're citing to the wrong piece of evidence to prove a lack of consistency in Dugtrio's ability to set up a situation to enable something to sweep. How is Dugtrio's winrate going to show you whether it consistently sets up a situation that makes it easier for another pokemon to sweep? A lot of factors go into affecting Dugtrio's winrate -> RNG such as the sweeper missing a move which stops it from sweeping, a crit on the sweeper when it tries to set up, a player who doesn't utilize the sweeper efficiently to sweep, the remaining 5 members of a team solely being responsible for winning without Dugtrio's support etc. The only way to show Dugtrio's ability to set up a situation that makes it easier for another pokemon to sweep is by looking at replays and seeing what options players have to dance around it or data like what kind of sweepers Dugtrio supports such that the tier's answers to those sweepers are susceptible to being trapped etc. I'm definitely not knowledgeable about the current NU meta, but I just wanted to point that those numbers alone will not help reflect Dugtrio's state in the tier. 8 hours ago, Munya said: Except you are wrong, there are people from that team that voted on each side. And it is so hard to argue with this when you don't give us the breakdown of the votes. Your statement could also mean that 3 people on SIA voted to not ban Dug while only one voted to ban it, which is still bothersome. I'm not saying Madara / Mkns are biased or that they make tiering decisions based on what they feel benefits their team, because they're better than that. What I am saying is that they may not subconsciously realize how much their playing style/mentality is affected when they are surrounded by like-minded players within a team and how that's been the case for years. NOREButler, Zymogen, NataliaSad and 6 others 9 Link to comment
CaptnBaklava Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 10 hours ago, RysPicz said: I actually can. Situation when Dugtrio removes a mon but still loses because the rest of the team is shit/ player is bad. Ban delibird. It's consistent (14/20 winrate). Seriously, stop trying to use usage/ winrate as an argument, especially if you're staff, because this is making you look like you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about Munyu. If you want to defend a pokemon, use damage calcs, provide specific situations from fights to prove your point. For your own sake. Isn't that all you? ? epicdavenport and RysPicz 2 Link to comment
RysPicz Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 1 minute ago, CaptnBaklava said: Isn't that all you? ? It is, yes Link to comment
razimove Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 2 hours ago, DoubleJ said: I'd still take these dead boys over you imagine this being your only argument kek Link to comment
OrangeManiac Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 11 hours ago, Munya said: How is it consistent though, like how are you factoring that because, while I'll concede lot on usage arguments, consistency is one thing usage will show, as it pulls actual numbers. The thing has a 51% win rate, and its used a measly 11% of the time last month, I haven't looked at this month yet since its so early and not much data has been pulled but maybe it changed. Either way, thats hardly consistent. Consistently average maybe. Bringing out the winrate of a meta-centralizing Pokemon misdirects the conversation quite badly. If you look at any large Smogon tournaments' statistics, the metagame defining threats often have sub-50% winrate because these Pokemon are so heavily teched against and when they win they usually won a mirror-match. When a trapper gains such significant usage as Dugtrio does, people are building entire teams to try to render Dugtrio as useless as possible. Is that a smart decision by the player to deal with the problem of Dugtrio's prevalence, probably. But is it good for a healthy and diverse metagame where people should have as much creativity as possible to build a well-rounded team? Absolutely not. Zymogen, NikhilR, Gruul and 9 others 12 Link to comment
Huargensy Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 (edited) Dugtrio no rompe el nivel, obviamente nunca romperá ningún nivel, es incapaz de barrer mons por sí mismo así como defenderlos de los demás, tampoco es capaz de atrapar al 100% por sus defensas y la existencia de prioridad de algunos mons. , pero mientras haya dugtrio, Mons tendrá que hacer trampa, aquí no vamos por si algo se rompe o no, vamos por algo que no es saludable, su habilidad sigue siendo algo malsano no solo en esto, si no en en general, te da una ventaja competitiva lo quieras o no, desde eelektross eliminando su contador más seguro (Nidoqueen, y así poder golpear al resto de forma gratuita, incluso a los equipos de muros dañados por wallbreaks como magmortar, o controles de velocidad como blaziken y luego de eliminar esto es más difícil jugar contra x equipo sin la amenaza que debias, aplica a tyranitar en OU, aplica a heracross en UU y débiles stalls a magnezone tambien skar + dugtrio idk, este hab te asegura en el caso de jugarlo bien eliminar un mon rival, y si este influye en el duelo, si Implementar perdiste, tambien hace x que las cosas no jueguen diferente, houndoom specs es comida para dugtrio, he visto a nidoqueen usar sheed shell para no quedar atrapada, pudiendo aprovechar mejor el lodo uguu o el casco rocoso, a lo que voy es que dugtrio nunca será algo que te barrerá, por lo tanto no está roto, pero es algo que te da una ventaja competitiva lo quieras o no, imagínate jugando una bufanda tyranitar vs 5mons que aprovechan de no ser tyra para ganar, que haces? Ese es el problema, la ventaja competitiva que te dará, la eliminación de una mecánica competitiva que es el cambio, y el problema que produce en la construcción. I would personally go for the ban Edited August 4, 2021 by Huargensy RysPicz, Axelgor, MadaraSixSix and 4 others 7 Link to comment
gbwead Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 I feel people don't realise the terrible precedent banning Dugtrio or Arena Trap in NU would set. Is there a reliable NU viability list out there that we can all use as a reference point? People list so many pokemon being weak to Dugtrio and I can't help but wonder what kind of metagame they are playing. Are they really playing 6 mons weak to ground or with low defense in their teams? Who plays Manectric, Electivire, Blaziken, Magmortar and Drapion together. Let's be real, most teams, the ones that are decent, do not carry more than 1 or 2 mons weak to Dugtrio. And that's not because they are afraid of Dugtrio, it's because they simply shouldn't overlap weaknesses. Some may say that if Dugtrio can successfully trap 1 pokemon, that means Dugtrio is cancer, but that's the same cancer that we see in OU and UU. OU and UU players do not carry 6 mons weak to Dugtrio, they play no more than 1 or 2 mons weak to Dugtrio just like NU players. I really hate the idea that NU needs some special treatment and tiering should be done differently there. A lot of people point out that usage or win rate are not good metrics to determine if a pokemon is banworthy or not. I don't really disagree with that, but why then present Dugtrio as this huge meta defining threat with only usage to backup that statement. I'm sorry but usage in the case of Dugtrio doesn't show that the mon is viable or meta defining. The reason why Dugtrio is played so much is because Dugtrio is a popular mon and even people that hate Dugtrio play it. With Team Preview and a 80 base attack, Dugtrio is really not that good and that's the reason it has fallen to NU. And it would fall to Untiered if it wasn't for the fact that NU needs Dugtrio. The tier has been in a terrible state for years because of all the unstability caused the crazy usage cycles. A Pokemon like Dugtrio provides a lot of much needed stability to the players thanks to its uncompetitive ability. In a chaotic metagame constantly shaken up, Dugtrio's cancer simplifies games and that's what players want (not me, I don't play Dugtrio in NU). Dugtrio's utilities and drawbacks are clear. Perhaps the issue is simply that people love to hate Arena Trap and that's understandable, but clearly not enough for a ban imo. AwaXGoku, Coge, MadaraSixSix and 2 others 5 Link to comment
MadaraSixSix Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 5 hours ago, NOREButler said: So people just need to copy your teams now instead of running the mons they´d like to run, because your "original" builds don´t struggle with duggy at all. They can also just play stuff that sets up on duggy, right? Like biba/samu - inferior feras or lilli, thats been shit for ages, or SD (?) zard, because slowbro in the tier makes set up zards so damn amazing, ooooor mantine...? Any other random unrelated shit mon you suggested? The fact your builds don´t struggle with dugtrio doesnt make it any healtier. And if your opponent has a dugtrio and it does nothing vs a cb blaziken in your team, then that opponent might be less good than you are trying to sell here, so i really am struggling to figure out how that pararaph has any essence at all. Being able to set up on a certain mon doesnt make it any healthier and if you can prep for dugtrio killing your mons to set up afterwards, maybe your opponent can prep for that as well? If you set up on it, it probably did its job already. Dugtrio not preventing games from being played (whatever that even means) doesnt mean it isnt stupidly restrictive in building and playing. Maybe its because of language barrier (though i kinda doubt that), but your arguments aren´t good arguments at all. Or because they are bad, which most people just are. Heard good players are able to build teams around certain mons without the team being bad. - Idk how it is hard to see that dugtrio is unhealthy af for the tier. It turns running certain mons - not even just offensive ones - into mu fishing shit fests. Im not playing anymore (partly because tiering in this game is just a fkn farce [,so thanks i guess]), which means i can just sit back and watch you guys break the roserade ban refusal record with dugtrio in peace. That ignorance is just baffling however, considering all the reasonable input of well known players thats been gathered already. 1: I never said that I people had to copy me, but you butler if you have so much trouble vs the terrible dugtrio you can copy me or inspire you if you want;) 2: for the opponent that I beat with blaziken cb he won more tournaments than you, so it's not really up to you to say if he's good or not 3 : my arguments are not good? that's your opinion, a question where are your arguments? 4 : you said bibarel lilligant mantine (rain dance) ect it's shit, very good once again it's your opinion you give your opinion a lot without necessarily explaining why a pokemon is bad, I have personally seen mantine or liligant team sweep, but normal if I go in your direction the advairsaire was zero, or their team building was zero DrakeHope 1 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 4 hours ago, razimove said: imagine this being your only argument kek It's the only one I need. DrakeHope 1 Link to comment
razimove Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 1 minute ago, DoubleJ said: It's the only one I need. for what? Does that prove anything? Just that you, Zebra, Tyrone and some others who had the decency of calling it quits, don't play actively, 2018 is your last HoF entry, and since then I have you on my alt's FL which actually has some HoF entries, you're not that active aswell, yet you can argue that you played in this meta and can hold your ground on arguments, but can they? They are completely out of the game and this meta, especially on lower tiers which is what's being discussed rn. DoubleJ and AnRae 2 Link to comment
RysPicz Posted August 4, 2021 Share Posted August 4, 2021 8 minutes ago, DoubleJ said: It's the only one I need. 5 minutes ago, razimove said: for what? Does that prove anything? Just that you, Zebra, Tyrone and some others who had the decency of calling it quits, don't play actively, 2018 is your last HoF entry, and since then I have you on my alt's FL which actually has some HoF entries, you're not that active aswell, yet you can argue that you played in this meta and can hold your ground on arguments, but can they? They are completely out of the game and this meta, especially on lower tiers which is what's being discussed rn. Guys please, let's focus on the subject. Me and Madara do not like each other but we do discuss like civilized people and I know you are capable of that too. Let's not forget that we all have a common goal. epicdavenport and HumongousNoodle 1 1 Link to comment
Huargensy Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Huargensy said: Dugtrio no rompe el nivel, obviamente nunca romperá ningún nivel, es incapaz de barrer mons por sí mismo así como defenderlos de los demás, tampoco es capaz de atrapar al 100% por sus defensas y la existencia de prioridad de algunos mons. , pero mientras haya dugtrio, Mons tendrá que hacer trampa, aquí no vamos por si algo se rompe o no, vamos por algo que no es saludable, su habilidad sigue siendo algo malsano no solo en esto, si no en en general, te da una ventaja competitiva lo quieras o no, desde eelektross eliminando su contador más seguro (Nidoqueen, y así poder golpear al resto de forma gratuita, incluso a los equipos de muros dañados por wallbreaks como magmortar, o controles de velocidad como blaziken y luego de eliminar esto es más difícil jugar contra x equipo sin la amenaza que debias, aplica a tyranitar en OU, aplica a heracross en UU y débiles stalls a magnezone tambien skar + dugtrio idk, este hab te asegura en el caso de jugarlo bien eliminar un mon rival, y si este influye en el duelo, si Implementar perdiste, tambien hace x que las cosas no jueguen diferente, houndoom specs es comida para dugtrio, he visto a nidoqueen usar sheed shell para no quedar atrapada, pudiendo aprovechar mejor el lodo uguu o el casco rocoso, a lo que voy es que dugtrio nunca será algo que te barrerá, por lo tanto no está roto, pero es algo que te da una ventaja competitiva lo quieras o no, imagínate jugando una bufanda tyranitar vs 5mons que aprovechan de no ser tyra para ganar, que haces? Ese es el problema, la ventaja competitiva que te dará, la eliminación de una mecánica competitiva que es el cambio, y el problema que produce en la construcción. I would personally go for the ban I was in class and I did not notice that I put it in Spanish Haha xD Zymogen, TohnR and RysPicz 3 Link to comment
Huargensy Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 1 hour ago, gbwead said: I feel people don't realise the terrible precedent banning Dugtrio or Arena Trap in NU would set. Is there a reliable NU viability list out there that we can all use as a reference point? People list so many pokemon being weak to Dugtrio and I can't help but wonder what kind of metagame they are playing. Are they really playing 6 mons weak to ground or with low defense in their teams? Who plays Manectric, Electivire, Blaziken, Magmortar and Drapion together. Let's be real, most teams, the ones that are decent, do not carry more than 1 or 2 mons weak to Dugtrio. And that's not because they are afraid of Dugtrio, it's because they simply shouldn't overlap weaknesses. Some may say that if Dugtrio can successfully trap 1 pokemon, that means Dugtrio is cancer, but that's the same cancer that we see in OU and UU. OU and UU players do not carry 6 mons weak to Dugtrio, they play no more than 1 or 2 mons weak to Dugtrio just like NU players. I really hate the idea that NU needs some special treatment and tiering should be done differently there. A lot of people point out that usage or win rate are not good metrics to determine if a pokemon is banworthy or not. I don't really disagree with that, but why then present Dugtrio as this huge meta defining threat with only usage to backup that statement. I'm sorry but usage in the case of Dugtrio doesn't show that the mon is viable or meta defining. The reason why Dugtrio is played so much is because Dugtrio is a popular mon and even people that hate Dugtrio play it. With Team Preview and a 80 base attack, Dugtrio is really not that good and that's the reason it has fallen to NU. And it would fall to Untiered if it wasn't for the fact that NU needs Dugtrio. The tier has been in a terrible state for years because of all the unstability caused the crazy usage cycles. A Pokemon like Dugtrio provides a lot of much needed stability to the players thanks to its uncompetitive ability. In a chaotic metagame constantly shaken up, Dugtrio's cancer simplifies games and that's what players want (not me, I don't play Dugtrio in NU). Dugtrio's utilities and drawbacks are clear. Perhaps the issue is simply that people love to hate Arena Trap and that's understandable, but clearly not enough for a ban imo. You do not put Dugtrio to sweep a team, he never will, you just have to get off one to support the other one behind you, the case of nidoqueen (eelektross + dugtrio) or the case of scarf dugtrio in a weak team to blaziken, in each level there will always be something that can be trapped and without x things it will make your opponent have no way to counteract your team, something like happened in smou with stall and his terror heatran / tyranitar, or skar + dugtrio to eliminate magnezone, that is an advantage that It will give you in the best cases a way to win at the best moment, obviously it does not have much to cheat on in NU I completely agree with that, but I feel that this is compensated by eliminating important things from the level, drapion like wallbreak, blaziken being a good pivot, Typlo another important mon and nidoqueen, one of the best walls in my opinion of NU, etc, with them outside would mean an advantage depending on the team that you join with dugtrio (I would only leave dugtrio because I hate typloshion in the level and it makes me a good answer haha) TohnR, NOREButler, Quinn010 and 6 others 9 Link to comment
NOREButler Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 Spoiler 38 minutes ago, MadaraSixSix said: 1: I never said that I people had to copy me, but you butler if you have so much trouble vs the terrible dugtrio you can copy me or inspire you if you want;) 2: for the opponent that I beat with blaziken cb he won more tournaments than you, so it's not really up to you to say if he's good or not 3 : my arguments are not good? that's your opinion, a question where are your arguments? 4 : you said bibarel lilligant mantine (rain dance) ect it's shit, very good once again it's your opinion you give your opinion a lot without necessarily explaining why a pokemon is bad, I have personally seen mantine or liligant team sweep, but normal if I go in your direction the advairsaire was zero, or their team building was zero 1. Hard to struggle with duggy when i have 0 comps, but you made me log to check those inspirational teams, gotta give you that: I assume Cursetank and BU Throh. Stacking walls and adding 1-2 bulky set up mons, very inspring and never seen before. iirc you ran that shit before duggy dropped. Scarf blaze, specs vani, cm / cp clef? Let me guess, all of those mons are 2x252 in evs? No offense, for real, but i dont know anybody who is impressed or inspired by your teambuilding, myself included. If you want the nicer version of what i was trying to say check Niks second paragraph. You cant expect everybody to want to play 30-45min games. Some people have rl obligations. 2. I dont think i´ve failed to proof that i was able to keep up at the highest level, so i dont see how me having less HoF entries hinders my ability to judge someones capability to play mons. Apart from that i didnt say hes bad. 3. Why would i need arguments when everything that needed to be said has already been said? Its you who should come up with solid arguments taking a contra stance regrading the duggy ban discussion since theres already been valid points pro ban. Well and because its your obligation as a tc memeber and you failed pretty miserably - objectively. 4. Not only my opinion it seems: Biba 1% usage, lilligant 1,2% usage, mantine 17,2% usage - 34% being modest/timid. Fera > biba; lilli is gonna have a hard time sweeping with venu, drapion, escava, golbat, blaze, doom around unless you found a way to run several hidden powers, mantines just shit outside of rain teams. I really cba to play this game rn, but id be looking forward to you winning the shiny lilli and uploading the replays of you using biba, lilli, rain mantine on yt, because i enjoy watching mons before sleeping. Sadly you probably wont, because while these mons can shine, they´re inconsistent and/or outclassed. I mean even if they werent, i dont see how any of these mons has anything to do with dugtrio being uncompetitive bs due to arena trap. Spoiler, cause somewhat of a derail. 1 hour ago, gbwead said: Are they really playing 6 mons weak to ground or with low defense in their teams? Who plays Manectric, Electivire, Blaziken, Magmortar and Drapion together. Yeah, people are complaining about dugtrio 6:0ing the whole tier, right. DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
MadaraSixSix Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 4 hours ago, Huargensy said: Dugtrio no rompe el nivel, obviamente nunca romperá ningún nivel, es incapaz de barrer mons por sí mismo así como defenderlos de los demás, tampoco es capaz de atrapar al 100% por sus defensas y la existencia de prioridad de algunos mons. , pero mientras haya dugtrio, Mons tendrá que hacer trampa, aquí no vamos por si algo se rompe o no, vamos por algo que no es saludable, su habilidad sigue siendo algo malsano no solo en esto, si no en en general, te da una ventaja competitiva lo quieras o no, desde eelektross eliminando su contador más seguro (Nidoqueen, y así poder golpear al resto de forma gratuita, incluso a los equipos de muros dañados por wallbreaks como magmortar, o controles de velocidad como blaziken y luego de eliminar esto es más difícil jugar contra x equipo sin la amenaza que debias, aplica a tyranitar en OU, aplica a heracross en UU y débiles stalls a magnezone tambien skar + dugtrio idk, este hab te asegura en el caso de jugarlo bien eliminar un mon rival, y si este influye en el duelo, si Implementar perdiste, tambien hace x que las cosas no jueguen diferente, houndoom specs es comida para dugtrio, he visto a nidoqueen usar sheed shell para no quedar atrapada, pudiendo aprovechar mejor el lodo uguu o el casco rocoso, a lo que voy es que dugtrio nunca será algo que te barrerá, por lo tanto no está roto, pero es algo que te da una ventaja competitiva lo quieras o no, imagínate jugando una bufanda tyranitar vs 5mons que aprovechan de no ser tyra para ganar, que haces? Ese es el problema, la ventaja competitiva que te dará, la eliminación de una mecánica competitiva que es el cambio, y el problema que produce en la construcción. I would personally go for the ban it is interesting the best defense that I saw for this debate dugtrio does not destroy the level and not trap one pokemon at 100% i agree with this "su habilidad sigue siendo algo malsano no solo en esto, si no en en general, te da una ventaja competitiva lo quieras o no, " no dugtrio even with its ability does not always give an adventage to its user, sometimes having dugtrio is just having a weak pokemon out of 6 yes your example of eelektross + dugtrio is very good it's a good combo well found, but as you will say later there are plenty of combos in different thirds eelektross is capable of disturbing all ground pokemon, exepcté nido that doesn't make dugtrio the strong pokemon, it's just the eelktross movepool which is big, ... if we all have to play nidoquen it's that there is a problem right? then you take this example, but it works because dugtrio is capable of rather well trapped nidoquen, everyone does not always play nido in this team a nido that plays sheed shell, it's like a skarmory or ferrot for magnzone... no it does not always give an advantage in my opinion, something that is not broken should not be banned Link to comment
MadaraSixSix Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 43 minutes ago, NOREButler said: Reveal hidden contents 1. Hard to struggle with duggy when i have 0 comps, but you made me log to check those inspirational teams, gotta give you that: I assume Cursetank and BU Throh. Stacking walls and adding 1-2 bulky set up mons, very inspring and never seen before. iirc you ran that shit before duggy dropped. Scarf blaze, specs vani, cm / cp clef? Let me guess, all of those mons are 2x252 in evs? No offense, for real, but i dont know anybody who is impressed or inspired by your teambuilding, myself included. If you want the nicer version of what i was trying to say check Niks second paragraph. You cant expect everybody to want to play 30-45min games. Some people have rl obligations. 2. I dont think i´ve failed to proof that i was able to keep up at the highest level, so i dont see how me having less HoF entries hinders my ability to judge someones capability to play mons. Apart from that i didnt say hes bad. 3. Why would i need arguments when everything that needed to be said has already been said? Its you who should come up with solid arguments taking a contra stance regrading the duggy ban discussion since theres already been valid points pro ban. Well and because its your obligation as a tc memeber and you failed pretty miserably - objectively. 4. Not only my opinion it seems: Biba 1% usage, lilligant 1,2% usage, mantine 17,2% usage - 34% being modest/timid. Fera > biba; lilli is gonna have a hard time sweeping with venu, drapion, escava, golbat, blaze, doom around unless you found a way to run several hidden powers, mantines just shit outside of rain teams. I really cba to play this game rn, but id be looking forward to you winning the shiny lilli and uploading the replays of you using biba, lilli, rain mantine on yt, because i enjoy watching mons before sleeping. Sadly you probably wont, because while these mons can shine, they´re inconsistent and/or outclassed. I mean even if they werent, i dont see how any of these mons has anything to do with dugtrio being uncompetitive bs due to arena trap. Spoiler, cause somewhat of a derail. Yeah, people are complaining about dugtrio 6:0ing the whole tier, right. I don't know what you want to prove by showing two of my teams who are not even weak at Dugtrio yet? that they are rather bulky or stall? I played offense and hyper offense at my psl team matches at certain tournaments as well? for me a player who has won lots of tournaments has a lot more credit than a player who talks a lot ? you're probably right, i'm probably a bad tc I finished talking with you Link to comment
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