January 2023- Movement Discussion

[drewq]

1 hour ago, Axelgor said:

Isn’t the item safety goggles used for mons like amoongus? Crobat I.e would be a hard counter 

This is a Gen 6 item.

 

Perhaps taking spore from Amoonguss would be appropriate in order to neuter its centralization while still allowing it to fulfill its role. I don't like messing with learnsets (i.e. Chomp and Hydrei) but this would be a step in the right direction without going nuclear.

Edited February 10, 2023 by drewq

[Axelgor]

36 minutes ago, drewq said:

This is a Gen 6 item.

 

Perhaps taking spore from Amoonguss would be appropriate in order to neuter its centralization while still allowing it to fulfill its role. I don't like messing with learnsets (i.e. Chomp and Hydrei) but this would be a step in the right direction without going nuclear.

It'd be better to add things, like that item, as opposed to removing moves, which would be a needlessly drastic action in this scenario

[drewq]

3 hours ago, Axelgor said:

It'd be better to add things, like that item, as opposed to removing moves, which would be a needlessly drastic action in this scenario

Adding a brand new item to counteract a single Pokemon's place in the meta is equally, if not more, drastic.

 

Not to say that I disagree or that it's a bad idea, it certainly isn't. 

[PoseidonWrath]

We are aware about the meta being unhealthy and are discussing about certain items that might solve the problem. Right now we are thinking about Safety Goggles ( Grants the holder immunity to powder and sleep moves and to damage from hail and sandstorm) to pressure Amoonguss a bit.

 

Which items do u guys consider healthy adding to improve the meta? (Keep in mind that we cant guarantee they will be in soon though) 

Edited February 10, 2023 by PoseidonWrath

[Spaintakula]

8 hours ago, Axelgor said:

It'd be better to add things, like that item, as opposed to removing moves, which would be a needlessly drastic action in this scenario

If you add just one thing, then it makes 0 sense

Either way, gen5 on smogon put spore under sleep clause and unable to be used, don't see why we can't do it here too

It's not broken, we just don't have everything in the game to deal with it in an easier manner

 

 

4 hours ago, PoseidonWrath said:

We are aware about the meta being unhealthy and are discussing about certain items that might solve the problem. Right now we are thinking about Safety Goggles ( Grants the holder immunity to powder and sleep moves and to damage from hail and sandstorm) to pressure Amoonguss a bit.

 

Which items do u guys consider healthy adding to improve the meta? (Keep in mind that we cant guarantee they will be in soon though) 

If we add safety goggles, might aswell add punching gloves, then rough skin and rocky helmet aren't a problem either, right

 

E: Someone merge my posts, I thought I was editing the old post

[gbwead]

Spore is not the main issue on Amoongus, Regenerator is. Amoongus was Untiered with Spore. Amoongus is OU with Regenerator. Safety Goggles are nice and all, they will help slightly vs Amoongus, but they won't help vs what makes Amoongus an OU mon.

[caioxlive13]

1 hour ago, PoseidonWrath said:

We are aware about the meta being unhealthy and are discussing about certain items that might solve the problem. Right now we are thinking about Safety Goggles ( Grants the holder immunity to powder and sleep moves and to damage from hail and sandstorm) to pressure Amoonguss a bit.

 

Which items do u guys consider healthy adding to improve the meta? (Keep in mind that we cant guarantee they will be in soon though) 

Maybe Heavy-Duty Boots(Possible name: Reinforced Iron Boots), Loaded Dice(Possible name: Rusty Dice) and Protective Pads(Possible name: Steel Gloves). The possible names is names to put on those items to avoid Copyright issues.

HDB resolves a old issue called Serperior, making Volcarona beating it safety and also crobat. Loaded dice slighty helps Cinncino and other abusers of Technician + Multi-hit attacks(Moves that can hit 5 times always hit at least 4 times) like breloom. Protective pads can have a niche on some mons to it don't die to Rough Skin/Iron Barbs, also helping vs flame body. 

Only fearing on lower tiers abuse of mons like Venomoth and Yanmega that aren't overpowered now due to rocks weakness that hurts a lot. They should be banned if HDB comes.

Edited February 10, 2023 by caioxlive13

[Axelgor]

3 hours ago, Spaintakula said:

 

If we add safety goggles, might aswell add punching gloves, then rough skin and rocky helmet aren't a problem either, right

 

E: Someone merge my posts, I thought I was editing the old post

You do know that safety goggles is a gen 6 item like AV, but punching gloves is gen 9? Never said just add one thing, I'm just saying we're missing key items which help balance the meta. 

 

Although it doesn't prevent Amoong being an OU mon, it obviously helps when they can't spam spore freely. Comparing adding an item like goggles to punching gloves is just dumb no offense, given the current scenario.

 

4 hours ago, drewq said:

Adding a brand new item to counteract a single Pokemon's place in the meta is equally, if not more, drastic.

 

Not to say that I disagree or that it's a bad idea, it certainly isn't. 

Removing spore affects its viability in Dubs and LC, besides that item isn't ground breaking, it's niche. Putting spore for amoongus on the same level as SD for chomp and draco for hydreigon is ridiculous

[Bertolfoso]

Please no more items, if i wanted to play gen9 natdex with only gen5 mons i'd play showdown challanging a friend or something.

AV didnt fix the problem it was supposed to fix (serp), and btw, introducing an entire item only for something in ou is so dumb (first of all it doesnt fix the issue, second the item affects other tiers as well).

 

 

Also please no to heavy duty boots, especially if you want a fix to regen. 

[Spaintakula]

47 minutes ago, Axelgor said:

You do know that safety goggles is a gen 6 item like AV, but punching gloves is gen 9? Never said just add one thing, I'm just saying we're missing key items which help balance the meta. 

 

Although it doesn't prevent Amoong being an OU mon, it obviously helps when they can't spam spore freely. Comparing adding an item like goggles to punching gloves is just dumb no offense, given the current scenario.

We've already implemented gen6+ movesets, I don't see why the gen matters for items, they're not gamebreaking or require gen6+ mons/mechanics. Punching glove would just make people not abuse rocky that much and expand teambuilding a bit.

 

[RysPicz]

4 hours ago, PoseidonWrath said:

Which items do u guys consider healthy adding to improve the meta?

Legendaries

[LifeStyleNORE]

Heatran, Zapdos, Lando-T, Thundu-T, Keldeo, Terrakion, Cresselia would go a long way to make the game more fun and balanced. Also banning Arena Trap. 

 

And please don't make the players have to climb Mount Everest to get them. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by LifeStyleNORE

[Queza]

Buff knock off honestly, give us access to flip turn/ or draco on hydrei/SD on chomp and even triple axel, remove arena trap and add viable legends people can use and not have awkward teambuilding as well like tran, dos & lando-t. Safety goggles hardly scratch the surface of being useful, if we are adding items like that throw in weakness policy too.

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Queza

[NiceRNGbro]

these problems in our metagame, it's all the fault of the cowardice of the Devs, they refuse to bring basculegion, it would solve everything.

[drewq]

10 hours ago, Axelgor said:

Putting spore for amoongus on the same level as SD for chomp and draco for hydreigon is ridiculous

I disagree! I think that move provides half of Amoonguss' utility and is what makes it so threatening as a pivot on any playstyle. I honestly don't think messing with any more movesets is a great idea but I heavily prefer it to the cries to nerf/remove Regenerator. Tired of seeing the same Amoonguss switch-in to Amoonguss and both sides click Spore 5 times. 

 

I think goggles are a niche item that will help remedy the centralization a bit further, but is there anything better we can do outside of the two options we suggested?

[Spaintakula]

4 hours ago, drewq said:

I disagree! I think that move provides half of Amoonguss' utility and is what makes it so threatening as a pivot on any playstyle. I honestly don't think messing with any more movesets is a great idea but I heavily prefer it to the cries to nerf/remove Regenerator. Tired of seeing the same Amoonguss switch-in to Amoonguss and both sides click Spore 5 times. 

 

I think goggles are a niche item that will help remedy the centralization a bit further, but is there anything better we can do outside of the two options we suggested?

Regen gets removed, Amoongus is useless and drops to untiered again, spore gets removed, people will run shit like toxic or stun spore and spam it, still stays in OU

[Satore84]

I am sorry for bringing this up in a pvp discussion, but I think it wasn't stressed enough how the pp recovery nerf made battle tower grinding much worse.

Unless you bring 3 sweepers and hope for the better (you should not), walls and tanks simply cannot do their work reliably once you get around the 50th mark.

I am not going for the top spot in the BT chart, but I got 12th place in the open level bracket and I believe to have a grasp on how it works.

While being fully aware that this type of competitive PVE is not the focus of devs and most advanced trainers, again, I believe this matter should get some more visibility.

I didn't play the Switch Pokemon games but I heard that Scarlet and Violet do not have a Battle Tower clone anymore, so the pp reduction in that contest is less of a problem.

[suigin]

At this point there's no solution without either massively speeding up the release of certain Pokemon, namely legendaries or rolling back several additions such as AV and regenerator Amonogus.

This is what happens when the programmers and artists have the final say over people who actually play the game. I guarantee boots will be added because a dev heard that hazards were strong and Stealth Rock overpowered back in 2009 and it stuck in their head and now want to add every nerf possible to it.

[caioxlive13]

20 minutes ago, suigin said:

At this point there's no solution without either massively speeding up the release of certain Pokemon, namely legendaries or rolling back several additions such as AV and regenerator Amonogus.

This is what happens when the programmers and artists have the final say over people who actually play the game. I guarantee boots will be added because a dev heard that hazards were strong and Stealth Rock overpowered back in 2009 and it stuck in their head and now want to add every nerf possible to it.

some players says that they find boots coded in game. I'm betting that comes in Johto update.

[TohnR]

Don't buff Knock Off.
Don't add Heavy Duty Boots.
Those would not solve any of the problems and would actually create much greater problems ...

I doubt people would actually use Safety Goggles in Singles altho I see no drawbacks in adding them (in singles). I don't know what Doubles players think about it, as this item has more viability there (at least I've seen it being used more in VGC than any Singles meta).

Regen clause ?

Edited February 11, 2023 by TohnR

[gbwead]

Wobbuffet would be perfect to beat Amoongus. We need cancer to beat cancer. Bring back Wobbuffet.

[caioxlive13]

53 minutes ago, TohnR said:

Don't buff Knock Off.
Don't add Heavy Duty Boots.
Those would not solve any of the problems and would actually create much greater problems ...

I doubt people would actually use Safety Goggles in Singles altho I see no drawbacks in adding them (in singles). I don't know what Doubles players think about it, as this item has more viability there (at least I've seen it being used more in VGC than any Singles meta).

Regen clause ?

 - HDB is already coded on game, so it will be added soon or later.
 - Knock off would be nice if gets buffed. But not to Gen 6 and then for a custom power. 97,5 BP with power of remove items is OP.
Buff it to 40 with 1,5x modifier dmg if opponent has iteems, or 65 BP without the modifier, would be enought.
 - 100% support regen clasule
 - Safety googles would have only a niche on DB, so useless.

[JeanMarc]

1 hour ago, TohnR said:

Don't buff Knock Off.
Don't add Heavy Duty Boots.
Those would not solve any of the problems and would actually create much greater problems ...

I doubt people would actually use Safety Goggles in Singles altho I see no drawbacks in adding them (in singles). I don't know what Doubles players think about it, as this item has more viability there (at least I've seen it being used more in VGC than any Singles meta).

Regen clause ?

In the current state of the dubs meta, Safety Goggles probably wouldn't change too much (Ironically I think that stopping Rage Powder would be bigger factor to use it than to stop Spore) but its addition would be enough for me to start a legitimate discussion on whether sleep clause would still be needed in doubles, since there would then be enough viable counterplay around a lack of sleep clause.

[AwaXGoku]

Garchomp was broken they removed sword dance on it , hydrei was broken they remove draco meteor, why we need to add something to balance amoongus ? just remove him regen wtf... 
adding some legendaries too strong just to counter amoongus isnt how we solve the problem because the problem is regen and nothing else !!

[Queza]

Updated movepools when?

Edited February 12, 2023 by Queza