Takens Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 4 hours ago, Darkshade said: It is way harder to farm in comparison to when? And using which methods? I got easy answer for this one 1. pick up since the people made the pick up items worth less than 10k or at least most of them. 2. E4 NPC are way strong so we lose money to buy items and farm it. which it sucks not counting on the rng from them too. 3. NPC and GYMS were nerfed to the ground in the money they give and exp. Need more reasons to do something for the economy? i think not so please help farmingmmo. Link to comment
awkways Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 Just wanna quickly point out that if it seems like a LOT of shinys (including uber-rares) have been found recently, it might be largely because nearly everyone is using a donator status to gain access to the mobile beta, especially people who have never used one, or bought RP before. Even if it's just a 7-day donator, if 50%+ of the server uses donator at the same time it might have a temporary effect on the economy. This also includes a large portion the newer wave of players with under 500 hours. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is the only factor here or anything but it's certainly a contributor. I'm sure things will slow down a little more in the future. My prediction is by September 23rd. Raederz 1 Link to comment
Raederz Posted June 11, 2018 Share Posted June 11, 2018 offtopic Spoiler 8 hours ago, Goku said: that is Irrelevant coming from someone who is in a team doing exactly what you are so against. 9 hours ago, Raederz said: What lowballers do is way different. I keep thinking it should not be allowed, but I also accept that as long as it's allowed, hating on forum is the most I can do. Let me make my choices, and let my firends make their choices. Sometimes we have consensus (like when we all decided to have you out) and sometimes we dont, but we still enjoy the game together. 7 hours ago, Akshit said: Reasons why economy is the way it is: Pokeyen is way harder to farm Not sure of what you mean by hard, but in my opinion it's more like it should be more disversified. There are already pretty easy ways to make little profit (lets say, 500k a day, is never that hard as long as you know what to do), but we are stuck is 4-5 viable ways to make $ which may be a problem. Quote Constant Factors due to which deflation hasn't made things better for many: Braces are still worth 10k, TMs still worth the same, etc... while everything else falls; result = people who make their own pokemon keep going broke I'm not sure that reducing the money sink is right when there is an huge arrival of new players, but in another hand, I recently bred for sale, and noticed that many pokemon are not even worth to breed, being less valuable than the braces cost. So I may support this idea, but would prefer to find another solution about this problem, if one can be found. 4 hours ago, Anthrazit said: Auction house To enable players to get the best price for their shiny, I still believe the mentioned implementation of an 'auction house' is the more helpful/important part. It would also make statements like this obsolete: Auction is always a good thing for struggling economies, letting the trade be done with full information, on the object, on the value, and on the interest people give it. Also, I prevents lowball a bit more than just wild trades. It also let those who want to make profit, because Auctions rarely sell for 100% of the value. Anthrazit 1 Link to comment
Kyu Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) On 6/10/2018 at 11:29 AM, Zymogen said: I'm not demanding that something be implemented - if you cared to read the OP, you'll see that I'm looking to facilitate genuine discussion with the input of devs in order to get a feel for what's what. If anything is pointless, it's your comment. I gave my opinion on the topic in another thread, but I'd like to link it here: On 6/16/2018 at 12:12 AM, Kyu said: I can say a lot on the topic of video game economies, but I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how pricing and inflation works in-game. There is no "original price" if we do not make an NPC sell the item. It is what players sell it for, and what players are willing to pay for it. For example, let's take a look at Everstones: We can tweak the rates, but if the player count goes up dramatically and the item is generally available throughout the storyline, market instability will occur regardless of what we set rates at, because the item's target demographic is much smaller/different than who are farming it. That's not something we can "solve", nor would we want to, because it builds economic relationships between different gameplay types (farming/stat refinement). We can give the item more uses to encourage consumption or change its availability, but kneejerk economy changes are usually a Bad Idea™. Infact, every "valuable" object in-game which does not degrade (e.g. your shinies/comps), and has an infinite supply given time, will trend towards saturation and price reduction. The only real way to protect wealth stored in non-degradable items in an MMO is by using items which are limited by the game itself ("Limited Edition" hats, event-exclusive cosmetics, etc.) The above is why we release periodic "expansions" to content, like what we were hoping to do with HAs, and will do with Sinnoh. Since it protects the economy by creating degradation in gear quality, even if it causes short-term grief, it is better for the game's long-term economy as a whole. Anyway, on a less down note, all of the consumable economy is meant to feed back into Dungeons, since it provides natural incentives to refine stats/breed, consume healing items, etc. So when we get those functional, it should be in a better place. Note, this was in response to another player who was complaining about the saturation of goods in-game, and I assumed they were referring to things like Everstones. As I mentioned above, I can't really help the fact that the traditional representations of wealth are being upended without changing how they drop. I don't think anyone wants their shiny chances lowered further though. Within our current economic systems, the main 'solutions' which I would explore would be: Changing the baseline prices of farmed items like Everstones by enforcing NPC buy prices closer to their player-decided pricing. e.g. Everstones can now be sold to NPCs for 15k -> the price is now a minimum of 15k from the GTL. This has long-lasting repercussions, increasing the theoretical baseline cost of breeding. It has been done in a past update with Berries. Increasing baseline prices for valuable yet useless items like Nuggets, or common "Typed items" like Sharp Beaks can be a useful way to buff Payday outputs though. Making NPCs more accessible through PvE, without changing their build quality. This can be done through things like consumable buffs, e.g. X Attack & co. being moved to its Gen 7 mechanics, decreasing healing item prices, etc. This only applies to things which are actually hard. More solely yen rewarding daily stuff like Lady Selphy which is in the base game but not here (Is this even fun?) LuckyEggMMO (encourage players to dump wealth into items which are consumable/rare?) Making NPCs payout more (dangerous) Depending on who this buff is targeted towards, it may be more suitable to buff lower-end common NPCs which are of little consequence to established end-game players. Buffing high reward NPCs like the Elite 4 comes with much greater risk since the profit margins are dependent on player skill/strategy. But, I think that the major flaw within the economy is the endgame which doesn't encourage people to refine their stuff and convert from "farmers" to "breeders" in the first place. I'm hoping that dungeons will fix that part since the PvP in this game is impenetrable for a lot of people and doesn't provide much motivation. If there's anything else which you'd like my opinion on, let me know. Sorry that this post isn't better focused; This is a very complex topic with no easy answers Edited June 17, 2018 by Kyu Anthrazit, Quilachy and Zymogen 2 1 Link to comment
Goku Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Kyu said: I gave my opinion on the topic in another thread, but I'd like to link it here: Note, this was in response to another player who was complaining about the saturation of goods in-game, and I assumed they were referring to things like Everstones. As I mentioned above, I can't really help the fact that the traditional representations of wealth are being upended without changing how they drop. I don't think anyone wants their shiny chances lowered further though. Within our current economic systems, the main 'solutions' which I would explore would be: Changing the baseline prices of farmed items like Everstones by enforcing NPC buy prices closer to their player-decided pricing. e.g. Everstones can now be sold to NPCs for 15k -> the price is now a minimum of 15k from the GTL. This has long-lasting repercussions, increasing the theoretical baseline cost of breeding. It has been done in a past update with Berries. Increasing baseline prices for valuable yet useless items like Nuggets, or common "Typed items" like Sharp Beaks can be a useful way to buff Payday outputs though. Making NPCs more accessible through PvE, without changing their build quality. This can be done through things like consumable buffs, e.g. X Attack & co. being moved to its Gen 7 mechanics, decreasing healing item prices, etc. This only applies to things which are actually hard. More solely yen rewarding daily stuff like Lady Selphy which is in the base game but not here (Is this even fun?) LuckyEggMMO (encourage players to dump wealth into items which are consumable/rare?) Making NPCs payout more (dangerous) Depending on who this buff is targeted towards, it may be more suitable to buff lower-end common NPCs which are of little consequence to established end-game players. Buffing high reward NPCs like the Elite 4 comes with much greater risk since the profit margins are dependent on player skill/strategy. But, I think that the major flaw within the economy is the endgame which doesn't encourage people to refine their stuff and convert from "farmers" to "breeders" in the first place. I'm hoping that dungeons will fix that part since the PvP in this game is impenetrable for a lot of people and doesn't provide much motivation. If there's anything else which you'd like my opinion on, let me know. Sorry that this post isn't better focused; This is a very complex topic with no easy answers I like the luckyeggMMO part. Link to comment
Zymogen Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Kyu said: I gave my opinion on the topic in another thread, but I'd like to link it here: Note, this was in response to another player who was complaining about the saturation of goods in-game, and I assumed they were referring to things like Everstones. As I mentioned above, I can't really help the fact that the traditional representations of wealth are being upended without changing how they drop. I don't think anyone wants their shiny chances lowered further though. Within our current economic systems, the main 'solutions' which I would explore would be: Changing the baseline prices of farmed items like Everstones by enforcing NPC buy prices closer to their player-decided pricing. e.g. Everstones can now be sold to NPCs for 15k -> the price is now a minimum of 15k from the GTL. This has long-lasting repercussions, increasing the theoretical baseline cost of breeding. It has been done in a past update with Berries. Increasing baseline prices for valuable yet useless items like Nuggets, or common "Typed items" like Sharp Beaks can be a useful way to buff Payday outputs though. Making NPCs more accessible through PvE, without changing their build quality. This can be done through things like consumable buffs, e.g. X Attack & co. being moved to its Gen 7 mechanics, decreasing healing item prices, etc. This only applies to things which are actually hard. More solely yen rewarding daily stuff like Lady Selphy which is in the base game but not here (Is this even fun?) LuckyEggMMO (encourage players to dump wealth into items which are consumable/rare?) Making NPCs payout more (dangerous) Depending on who this buff is targeted towards, it may be more suitable to buff lower-end common NPCs which are of little consequence to established end-game players. Buffing high reward NPCs like the Elite 4 comes with much greater risk since the profit margins are dependent on player skill/strategy. But, I think that the major flaw within the economy is the endgame which doesn't encourage people to refine their stuff and convert from "farmers" to "breeders" in the first place. I'm hoping that dungeons will fix that part since the PvP in this game is impenetrable for a lot of people and doesn't provide much motivation. If there's anything else which you'd like my opinion on, let me know. Sorry that this post isn't better focused; This is a very complex topic with no easy answers Thanks for giving the time to read this discussion and provide a detailed response, it hasn’t gone unnoticed. Out of curiosity, what do you mean when you say “The PvP in this game is impenetrable for a lot of people”? Edited June 17, 2018 by Zymogen Link to comment
FunkPk Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 9 hours ago, Kyu said: Making NPCs payout more Please. Suneet 1 Link to comment
Goku Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Zymogen said: Thanks for giving the time to read this discussion and provide a detailed response, it hasn’t gone unnoticed. Out of curiosity, what do you mean when you say “The PvP in this game is impenetrable for a lot of people”? He probably means it's harder for the new players to get into the entire comp scenario and actually be good enough to challenge the the top dogs that have been playing comp a few years. So for new players winning official tournaments is very unlikely. Edited June 17, 2018 by Goku Sengoku9191 and Anthrazit 2 Link to comment
Kyu Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 8 hours ago, Zymogen said: Out of curiosity, what do you mean when you say “The PvP in this game is impenetrable for a lot of people”? This is more of a criticism of the entire series rather than PokeMMO's implementation, but the base game does a very poor job at explaining the mechanical complexities which go into a typical PvP battle and preparing you for them. Hidden mechanics, obfuscated stats, and inconsistent rulesets for classes of skills are the worst offenders to me, but the short campaign which focuses on little more than finding the right typing in the grass outside is a major problem. Coupled with vague documentation in-game which forces you to read a fansite to understand how the game works, it becomes very hard to play the game on an advanced level if you're not willing (or able) to sit down and read the manual. 5 hours ago, ImFunk said: Please. What NPCs do you think need attention? Crazyhell 1 Link to comment
FunkPk Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Kyu said: What NPCs do you think need attention? I would need to go through and battle them all to give you specifics but a large portion of NPCs only give you $1-3k and they just aren't worth fighting. Considering how dynamic the markets are (Everstones, Mushrooms, Heart Scales etc.) I feel we need a stable way to earn money, that isn't constantly changing. The reason behind the NPC nerf was the addition of Unova, which gave us more NPCs to fight, but wouldn't it be better to balance that by making them more difficult? The gym rematches are somewhat difficult with fair payouts and it's the most reliable way of earning money right now. I don't see the harm in increasing the difficulty and the payouts of other NPCs. Increased difficulty + increased payout (maybe longer cooldown?) > completely nerfing NPCs. Staggiie, Suneet and RysPicz 3 Link to comment
Darkshade Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 23 minutes ago, ImFunk said: I would need to go through and battle them all to give you specifics but a large portion of NPCs only give you $1-3k and they just aren't worth fighting. But there are lots of these trainers, right? Link to comment
Tyrone Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 What about that Trick House in Hoenn? Could implement that with some level of difficulty and give it a decent payout. LeZenor and Quakkz 2 Link to comment
FunkPk Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 19 minutes ago, Darkshade said: But there are lots of these trainers, right? Yes, but does that really balance it out? It takes much more time to make the same amount of money as before the nerf, and it isn't worth the time compared to other methods. Link to comment
Toupi Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 45 minutes ago, ImFunk said: I don't see the harm in increasing the difficulty and the payouts of other NPCs. NPC are good way for a new ppl to earn exp/cash, so increasing difficulty for all NPC is bad idea. Making more NPC like that single guy in Game phreak HQ is another story Link to comment
FunkPk Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, Toupi said: Making more NPC like that single guy in Game phreak HQ is another story I wouldn't mind this but isn't the payout around 19k? If they added more like this they would lower that payout, and at that point we're dealing with the exact same thing. More NPCs = more time/less money. Link to comment
gbwead Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 What's sad about the 1-2k NPCs is that with the time taken to defeat them more money could have been made by simply paydaying. Staggiie and LeZenor 2 Link to comment
Zymogen Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 17 minutes ago, Darkshade said: But there are lots of these trainers, right? But having a large quantity of low-payout trainers is hilariously boring and time consuming, right? Staggiie, Suneet, RysPicz and 2 others 5 Link to comment
Anthrazit Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Thanks a lot for the response and explanation/insight. I totally agree with your statement: 17 hours ago, Kyu said: But, I think that the major flaw within the economy is the endgame which doesn't encourage people to refine their stuff and convert from "farmers" to "breeders" in the first place. I'm hoping that dungeons will fix that part since the PvP in this game is impenetrable for a lot of people and doesn't provide much motivation. 17 hours ago, Kyu said: Changing the baseline prices of farmed items like Everstones by enforcing NPC buy prices closer to their player-decided pricing. e.g. Everstones can now be sold to NPCs for 15k -> the price is now a minimum of 15k from the GTL. This has long-lasting repercussions, increasing the theoretical baseline cost of breeding. In my opinion everstones were quite stable in their value over an impressive amount of time. The maybe currently stronger influences to lower their price, like... lower demand maybe less people breeding because they have projects "on hold", as they might be waiting for moves or abilities to work/might be waiting for certain hidden abilites the occasional everstone drop in Unvoa (for example while training in Giant Chasm) higher supply again, the occasional everstone drop in Unova maybe more people farming for everstones bigger playerbase people that might prefer everstone farming over other options to farm money ...may become weaker in the future, with higher demand with more people breeding due to implemented abilites and moves/more people advance to PvP or new PvE endgame content lower supply less people would farm for everstones if more interesting options to spend the time/farm for money (e.g. dungeon) were available I'd personally like to see if the price of everstones could be stable in the long run - without intervention via a price tag. 17 hours ago, Kyu said: If there's anything else which you'd like my opinion on, let me know. Sorry that this post isn't better focused; This is a very complex topic with no easy answers This might be something for the distant future and is under the premise that I remember/understood you correctly to one day expand the functionality of the GTL: What features could be added to the GTL/ingame trading system? Would you believe an 'acution house' to be beneficial or are there drawbacks that you see? (I am sorry to mention that idea yet again, but thats simply because I'd like to know your opinion on it.) Influencing this, but more generally: Which part of trading is considered a desired part of the playing experience and which byproduct would be considered undesired? e.g. If the GTL is used for sniping/flipping, is it regarded as a deviation from the content you want people to explore (and thus eventually impeded in the future) or is it part of the content/regarded as a valid way to earn money in the MMO (and thus promoted further in the future)? Thanks a lot for any perspective. Link to comment
Staggiie Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Darkshade said: But there are lots of these trainers, right? Yeah, there are roughly 520+ NPCs available to rematch across all regions combined. (I could have miscounted but it's ABOUT that many) However, I don't think the amount of trainers matters because it takes forever to fight them all. Their payouts vary, but their total payout is roughly 1.3m WITH Amulet Coin. (this doesn't include the Level 100 E4s (too hard for me cause I'm bad) or any Swimmers/Tuber NPCs (too poor).) And it took me playing 6-8 hours a day for 3 days to finish fighting every rematchable NPC. 520+ battles....If each battle takes on average, let's say, 2 minutes each.... 2 min per battle x 520 battles = 1,040 minutes 1,040 minutes = roughly 17 hours. (please excuse any bad maths, I'm just bad) So, 17 hours to make 1.3m. Which is mehhh. That's why people pick out the worthwhile ones (ones that pay 3-6k+) and ignore the rest. I personally do a npc run that nets around 500k for like 3-4 hours of grind. (All gyms + most Trainers that give 3k+) So, I think SOME NPC payouts are fair. (It was alot better before the nerfs but it's still a decent income). Some other's probably need a buff though imo because spending 17 hours to make 1.3m is just lol. I think buffing the smaller NPCs like Kyu said here would be okay and really nice. 18 hours ago, Kyu said: Making NPCs payout more (dangerous) Depending on who this buff is targeted towards, it may be more suitable to buff lower-end common NPCs which are of little consequence to established end-game players. Buffing high reward NPCs like the Elite 4 comes with much greater risk since the profit margins are dependent on player skill/strategy. I feel like if players take the time to rematch EVERYONE and spend DAYS to do it, there should be a bigger payout than that. I'm curious to know other's opinions on that though. The data I collected doesn't include E4 rematches so that's not even a factor of the 1.3m. ------------------------------------------------------------- Here's the data I gathered if anyone wanted it. I got this info from my npc money guide where I collected data on all trainer's rematch payouts with Amulet Coin. It's up-to-date and correct, afaik. (my last run through of them all was when Unova trainer rematches got added in the February Update.)Data Collected Spoiler DOES NOT INCLUDE E4 REMATCHES OR SWIMMER/TUBER NPCsKANTOTOTAL CASH = $ 341,744 Spoiler Viridian ForestTotal Cash = $ 6,000 Bug Catcher Rick = $ 1,200 Bug Catcher Doug = $ 1,230 Bug Catcher Anthony = $ 1,200 Bug Catcher Charlie = $ 1,200 Bug Catcher Sammy = $ 1,170 Route 3Total Cash = $ 5,865 Lass Janice = $ 780 Bug Catcher Colton = $ 615 Youngster Ben = $ 820 Bug Catcher Greg = $ 615 Lass Sally = $ 820 Youngster Calvin = $ 780 Bug Catcher James = $ 615 Lass Robin = $ 820 Mt. MoonTotal Cash = $ 7,235 Bug Catcher Kent = $ 615 Lass Iris = $ 820 Super Nerd Jovan = $ 1,440 Bug Catcher Robby = $ 600 Lass Miriam = $ 800 Youngster Josh = $ 800 Hiker Marcos = $ 2,160 Route 24 Total Cash = $ 5,065 Bug Catcher Cale = $ 615 Lass Ali = $ 780 Youngster Timmy = $ 800 Lass Reli = $ 820 Camper Ethan = $ 1,025 Camper Shane = $ 1,025 Route 25Total Cash = $ 11,625 Hiker Franklin = $ 2,115 Hiker Wayne = $ 2,160 Youngster Joey = $ 900 Youngster Dan = $ 820 Picnicker Kelsey = $ 950 Hiker Nob = $ 2,115 Camper Flint = $ 925 Youngster Chad = $ 820 Lass Haley = $ 820 Route 6Total Cash = $ 5,375 Camper Jeff = $ 1,000 Picnicker Isabelle = $ 1,000 Bug Catcher Elijah = $ 585 Picnicker Nancy = $ 1,025 Camper Ricky = $ 1,150 Bug Catcher Keigo = $ 615 Route 11Total Cash = $ 21,920 Youngster Eddie = $ 820 Youngster Dave = $ 820 Youngster Dillon = $ 820 Gamer Hugo = $ 3,290 Engineer Bernie = $ 2,880 Gamer Jasper = $ 3,360 Engineer Braxton = $ 2,880 Gamer Darian = $ 3,010 Youngster Yasu = $ 820 Gamer Dirk = $ 3,220 Route 9Total Cash = $ 11,645 Picnicker Alicia = $ 1,025 Hiker Jeremy = $ 2,115 Camper Chris = $ 1,050 Bug Catcher Brent = $ 615 Bug Catcher Conner = $ 615 Camper Drew = $ 1,000 Hiker Brice = $ 2,160 Picnicker Caitlin = $ 950 Hiker Alan = $ 2,115 Route 10Total Cash = $ 11,880 Picnicker Heidi = $ 1,000 PokeManiac Mark = $ 2,760 PokeManiac Herman = $ 2,820 Hiker Trent = $ 2,160 Hiker Clark = $ 2,115 Picnicker Carol = $ 1,025 Rock TunnelTotal Cash = $ 29,230 PokeManiac Ashton = $ 2,760 PokeManiac Winston = $ 2,880 Picnicker Martha = $ 1,025 PokeManiac Steve = $ 2,880 Hiker Allen = $ 2,160 Hiker Eric = $ 2,160 Hiker Lenny = $ 2,115 Hiker Oliver = $ 2,160 Hiker Lucas = $ 2,160 Picnicker Sofia = $ 925 Hiker Dudley = $ 2,160 PokeManiac Cooper = $ 2,820 Picnicker Leah = $ 1,025 Picnicker Ariana = $ 1,025 Picnicker Dana = $ 975 Route 8Total Cash = $ 17,275 Lass Julia = $ 820 Gamer Rich = $ 3,290 Super Nerd Glenn = $ 1,440 Twins Eli & Anne = $ 705 Lass Paige = $ 820 Super Nerd Leslie = $ 1,440 Lass Andrea = $ 780 Lass Megan = $ 780 Biker Jaren = $ 1,200 Biker Ricardo = $ 1,200 Super Nerd Aidan = $ 1,440 Gamer Stan = $ 3,360 Route 12Total Cash = $ 13,600 Fisherman Ned = $ 2,160 Fisherman Chip = $ 2,115 Fisherman Hank = $ 2,115 Fisherman Elliot = $ 2,160 Young Couple Gia & Jes = $ 1,505 Rocker Luca = $ 1,440 Camper Justin = $ 1,025 Fisherman Andrew = $ 1,080 Route 13Total Cash = $ 16,140 Picnicker Alma = $ 1,025 Birdkeeper Sebastian = $ 1,440 Picnicker Susie = $ 1,025 Beauty Lola = $ 3,290 Beauty Sheila = $ 3,290 Picnicker Valerie= $ 1,025 Picnicker Gwen = $ 1,025 Birdkeeper Robert = $ 1,410 Birdkeeper Perry = $ 1,410 Biker Jared = $ 1,200 Route 14Total Cash = $ 13,995 Birdkeeper Carter = $ 1,410 Birdkeeper Mitch = $ 1,440 Birdkeeper Beck = $ 1,380 Birdkeeper Marlon = $ 1,440 Birdkeeper Donald = $ 1,440 Birdkeeper Benny = $ 1,440 Twins Kiri & Jan = $ 720 Biker Gerald = $ 1,150 Biker Malik = $ 1,200 Biker Isaac = $ 1,175 Biker Lukas = $ 1,200 Route 15Total Cash = $ 17,145 Biker Ernest = $ 1,175 Biker Alex = $ 1,175 Beauty Grace = $ 3,360 Beauty Olivia = $ 3,150 Picnicker Kindra = $ 1,050 Birdkeeper Chester = $ 1,440 Birdkeeper Edwin = $ 1,410 Picnicker Yazmin = $ 1,025 Picnicker Becky = $ 1,025 Crush Kin Ron & Mya = $ 1,410 Picnicker Celia = $ 925 Route 16Total Cash = $ 9,354 Young Couple Lea & Jed = $ 1,505 Biker Lao = $ 1,200 Cue Ball Koji = $ 1,410 Cue Ball Luke = $ 1,440 Biker Hideo = $ 1,175 Biker Ruben = $ 1,175 Cue Ball Cameron = $ 1,440 Route 17Total Cash = $ 12,980 Cue Ball Isaiah = $ 1,440 Biker Virgil = $ 1,200 Cue Ball Raul = $ 1,410 Biker Billy = $ 1,200 Cue Ball Jamal = $ 1,380 Biker Jaxon = $ 1,100 Biker Nikolas = $ 1,200 Cue Ball Zeek = $ 1,440 Cue Ball Corey = $ 1,410 Biker William = $ 1,200 Route 18Total Cash = $ 4,290 Birdkeeper Jacob = $ 1,440 Birdkeeper Wilton = $ 1,410 Birdkeeper Ramiro = $ 1,440 Pokemon MansionTotal Cash = $ 18,580 Burglar Simon = $ 3,360 Burglar Arnie = $ 3,290 Scientist Braydon = $ 2,880 Scientist Ted = $ 2,880 Burglar Lewis = $ 3,290 Scientist Ivan = $ 2,880 Victory RoadTotal Cash = $ 24,285 Cool Couple Ray & Tyra = $ 1,650 Cool Trainer Colby = $ 1,935 Cool Trainer Caroline = $ 1,890 Cool Trainer Alexa = $ 1,890 Cool Trainer George = $ 1,890 PokeManiac Dawson = $ 2,760 Black Belt Daisuke = $ 1,440 Juggler Nelson = $ 2,300 Tamer Vincent = $ 2,350 Juggler Gregory = $ 2,400 Cool Trainer Rolando = $ 1,890 Cool Trainer Naomi = $ 1,890 Kanto Gyms Total Cash = $ 78,260Pewter City Leader Brock = $ 10,790 Cerulean City Leader Misty = $ 10,920 Vermillion City Leader Lt. Surge = $ 11,050 Celedon City Leader Erika = $ 11,180 Fuchsia City Leader Koga = $ 11,310 Saffron City Leader Sabrina = $ 11,440 Cinnabar Island Leader Blaine = $ 11,570Note: Viridian gym is NOT rematchable SEVII ISLESTOTAL CASH = $ 93,580 Spoiler Island 1Total Cash = $ 11,375Kindle Road Picnicker Claire = $ 1,025 Camper Bryce = $ 1,050 Crush Girl Tanya = $ 1,440 Crush Kin Mik & Kia = $ 1,440 Blackbelt Hugh = $ 1,410 Blackbelt Shea = $ 1,440 Crush Girl Sharon = $ 1,410 Fisherman Tommy = $ 2,160 Island 3Total Cash = $ 4,015Bond Bridge Twins Joy & Meg = $ 690 Aroma Lady Violet = $ 1,680 Aroma Lady Nikki = $ 1,645 Island 5Total Cash = $ 17,625Memorial Pillar Birdkeeper Milo = $ 1,380 Birdkeeper Chaz = $ 1,410 Birdkeeper Harold = $ 1,410Water Labyrinth Pkmn Breeder Alize = $ 1,645Resort Gorgeous Painter Rayna = $ 920 Lady Jacki = $ 4,080 Lady Gillian = $ 4,080 Painter Celina = $ 960 Painter Daisy = $ 920 Youngster Destin = $ 820 Island 6Total Cash = $ 23,585Water Path Juggler Edward = $ 2,400 Twins Miu & Mia = $ 720 Aroma Lady Rose = $ 1,680 Hiker Earl = $ 2,070 Green Path Psychic Jaclyn = $ 1,175 Outcast Island Fisherman Tylor = $ 1,980 Ruin Valley Hiker Daryl = $ 2,160 PokeManiac Hector = $ 2,880 Ruin Maniac Stanly = $ 2,880 Ruin Maniac Foster = $ 2,880 Ruin Maniac Larry = $ 2,760 Island 7Total Cash = $ 36,980Trainer Tower Psychic Rodette = $ 1,200 Psychic Dario = $ 1,200 Canyon Entrance Aroma Lady Miah = $ 1,645 Juggler Mason = $ 2,400 Pkmn Ranger Nicolas = $ 2,520 Pkmn Ranger Madeline = $ 2,520 Young Couple Eve & Jon = $ 1,505 Sevault Canyon Cool Couple Lex & Nya = $ 1,620 Tamer Evan = $ 2,300 Pkmn Ranger Jackson = $ 2,520 Pkmn Ranger Katelyn = $ 2,520 Crush Girl Cyndy = $ 1,410 Cool Trainer Leroy = $ 1,890 Cool Trainer Michelle = $ 1,890 Tanoby Ruins Ruin Maniac Brandon = $ 2,880 Painter Edna = $ 960 Gentleman Clifford = $ 3,360 Ruin Maniac Benjamin = $ 2,640 HOENNTOTAL CASH = $ 229,265 Spoiler Route 102 Youngster Calvin = $ 820 Route 104 Lady Cindy = $ 3,995 Rich Boy Winston = $ 4,080 Lass Haley = $ 820 Petalberg Woods Bug Catcher James = $ 820 Route 115 Battle Girl Cyndy = $ 1,440 Blackbelt Nob = $ 1,920 Expert Timothy = $ 2,750 Route 116 School Kid Karen = $ 975 School Kid Jerry = $ 1,025 Route 106 Fisherman Elliot = $ 2,300 Route 105 Ruin Maniac Andres = $ 3,290 Route 108 Sailor Cory = $ 1,920 Abandoned Ship Beauty Thalia = $ 3,360 Young Couple Kira & Dan = $ 1,920 Route 110 PokeFan Isabel = $ 3,360 Collecter Edwin = $ 3,360 Triathlete Abigail = $ 2,400 Triathlete Benjamin = $ 2,400 Route 103 Twins Amy & Liv = $ 705 PokeFan Miguel = $ 3,360 Route 117 Pkmn Breeder Lydia = $ 2,400 Triathlete Maria = $ 2,300 Pkmn Breeder Isaac = $ 2,400 Sr and Jr Anna & Meg = $ 940 Triathlete Dylan = $ 2,400 Route 118 Aroma Lady Rose = $ 2,400 Guitarist Dalton = $ 1,920 Route 112 Hiker Trent = $ 2,300 Mt. Chimney Expert Shelby = $ 2,800 Hiker Sawyer = $ 2,400 Jagged Pass Picnicker Diana = $ 820 Camper Ethan = $ 800 Route 111 Ruin Manaic Dusty = $ 3,360 Cool Trainer Wilton = $ 3,240 Cool Trainer Brooke = $ 3,360 Route 113 Parasol Lady Madeline = $ 2,350 Ninja Boy Lao = $ 615 Route 114 PokeManaic Steve = $ 3,360 Kindler Bernie = $ 1,920 Meteor Falls Old Couple John & Jay = $ 2,400 Dragon Tamer Nicolas = $ 3,360 Route 119 Pkmn Ranger Jackson = $ 3,360 Pkmn Ranger Catherine = $ 3,360 Route 120 Bird Keeper Robert = $ 1,920 Bug Maniac Jeffery = $ 2,870 Route 121 Cool Trainer Cristin = $ 3,300 Gentleman Walter = $ 3,290 Beauty Jessica = $ 3,360 Mt. Pyre Pkmn Breeder Gabrielle = $ 2,350 Hex Manaic Valerie = $ 1,440 Route 123 Psychic Cameron = $ 1,410 Guitarist Fernando = $ 1,800 Psychic Jacki = $ 1,380 Route 125 Sailor Ernest = $ 1,920 Route 127 Black Belt Koji = $ 1,880 Route 128 Triathlete Isaiah = $ 2,400 Triathlete Katelyn = $ 2,200 Route 126 Triathlete Pablo = $ 2,300 Victory Road Pkmn Trainer Wally = $ 3,600 Hoenn Gyms Total Cash = $ 89,960Rustboro Leader Roxanne = $ 10,790 Dewford Leader Brawly = $ 10,920 Mauville Leader Wattson = $ 11,050 Lavaridge Leader Flannery = $ 11,180 Petalberg Leader Norman = $ 11,310 Fortree Leader Winona = $ 11,440 Mossdeep Leaders Tate & Liza = $ 11,570 Sootopolis Leader Juan = $ 11,700 UNOVATOTAL CASH = $ 681,390 Spoiler Route 2Total Cash = $ 2,520 Youngster Jimmy = $ 840 Lass Mali = $ 840 Youngster Roland = $ 840 Dreamyard Total Cash = $ 20,760 (Outside) Lass Eri = $ 840 Youngster Joey = $ 840 (Basement) Scientist Markus = $ 3,180 Scientist Chan = $ 3,180 Psychic Tommy = $ 2,120 Scientist Katherine = $ 3,180 Psychic Rudolph = $ 2,120 Scientists Luke = $ 3,180 Psychic Future = $ 2,120Route 3Total Cash = $ 12,660 Nursery Aide Autumn = $ 2,300 Preschooler Doyle = $ 180 Preschooler Wendy = $ 180 Preschooler Tully = $ 180 PKMN Breeder Adelaide = $ 2,640 Schoolkid Al = $ 1,075 Schoolkid Marsha = $ 1,075 Schoolkid Gina = $ 1,075 PKMN Breeder Galen = $ 2,880 Schoolkid Edgar = $ 1,075 Wellspring CaveTotal Cash = $ 5,920 Blackbelt Edward = $ 1,960 Battlegirl Maggie = $ 1,960 Battlegirl Xiao = $ 2,000 Pinwheel Forest Total Cash = $ 26,230 (Outer) Nurse Shery = $ 2,350 Preschooler Juliet = $ 185 Preschooler Homer = $ 185 Youngster Keita = $ 880 Youngster Zachary = $ 880 Blackbelt Kentaro = $ 1,840 Battlegirl Lee = $ 1,840 (Inner) Twins Mayo & May = $ 880 PKMN Ranger Forrest = $ 3,290 Youngster Nicholas = $ 880 PKMN Ranger Audra = $ 3,290 PKMN Ranger Irene = $ 3,290 PKMN Ranger Miguel = $ 3,360 (Roadway) Schoolkid Sammy = $ 1,100 Lass Eva = $ 880 Schoolkid Millie = $ 1,100 Castelia CityTotal Cash = $ 43,525Battle Company Building (47th Floor) Clerk Ingrid = $ 2,350 Clerk Clemens = $ 2,350 Clerk Alberta = $ 2,350 Scientist Randall = $ 2,760 Clerk Warren = $ 2,350 (55th Floor) Clerk Ivan = $ 2,350 Scientist Samantha = $ 2,760 Scientist Steve = $ 2,760 Clerk Wade = $ 3,920 GameFREAK Building (22nd Floor) GameFREAK Morimoto = $ 19,575Route 4Total Cash = $ 21,770 Backpacker Keane = $ 1,410 Backpacker Anna = $ 1,410 Backpacker Jill = $ 1,410 Backpacker Waylon = $ 1,410 Backpacker Jerome = $ 1,410 Worker Scott = $ 2,300 Worker Zack = $ 2,300 Fisherman Hubert = $ 1,840 Fisherman Andrew = $ 1,840 Parasol Lady April = $ 1,840 Worker Gus = $ 2,300 Worker Shelby = $ 2,300 Desert ResortTotal Cash = $ 21,030 Doctor Jerry = $ 3,290 Backpacker Kelsey = $ 1,410 Backpacker Liz = $ 1,410 Backpacker Elaine = $ 1,410 Psychic Cybil = $ 1,840 Backpacker Nate = $ 1,410 Psychic Gavin = $ 1,840 Psychic Low = $ 1,840 PKMN Ranger Jaden = $ 3,290 PKMN Ranger Mylene = $ 3,290 Relic Castle Total Cash = $ 3,680 Psychic Perry = $ 1,840 Psychic Dua = $ 1,840Route 5Total Cash = $ 11,870 Baker Jenn = $ 2,350 Harlequin Paul = $ 1,880 Dancer Brian = $ 1,880 Artist Horton = $ 2,880 Backpacker Lois = $ 1,440 Backpacker Michael = $ 1,440 Cold StorageTotal Cash = $ 15,900 (Outside) Youngster Kenneth = $ 900 Youngster Albert = $ 900 Worker Eddie = $ 2,350 (Inside) Worker Victor = $ 2,350 Worker Glenn = $ 2,350 Worker Filipe = $ 2,350 Worker Patton = $ 2,350 Worker Ryan = $ 2,350 Route 6 Total Cash = $ 18,940 Scientist William = $ 2,820 PKMN Ranger Shanti = $ 3,360 Parasol Lady Nicole = $ 1,880 Scientist Ron = $ 2,820 Scientist Maria = $ 2,820 Parasol Lady Tihana = $ 1,880 PKMN Ranger Richard = $ 3,360 Mistralton CaveTotal Cash = $ 3,920 Hiker Clarke = $ 1,960 Hiker Hugh = $ 1,960 Chargestone CaveTotal Cash = $ 28,170 Ace Trainer Jared = $ 3,500 Scientist Ronald = $ 2,940 Scientist Naoko = $ 2,940 Doctor Wayne = $ 3,430 Ace Trainer Allison = $ 3,500 Ace Trainer Stella = $ 3,500 Scientist Orville = $ 2,940 Hiker Hardy = $ 1,920 Ace Trainer Corky = $ 3,500 Route 7Total Cash = $ 19,010 Backpacker Terrance = $ 1,500 Youngster Mikey = $ 920 Yongster Parker = $ 920 Ace Trainer Elmer = $ 3,500 Backpacker Ruth = $ 1,470 PKMN Ranger Mary = $ 3,430 PKMN Ranger Pedro = $ 3,430 Harlequin Pat = $ 1,920 Harlequin Ian = $ 1,920 Celestial TowerTotal Cash = $ 26,830 Psychic Doreen = $ 1,920 Lass Kara = $ 920 Pokefan Jude = $ 3,430 Pokefan Georgia = $ 3,430 Psychic Belle = $ 1,920 Psychic Micki = $ 1,920 Psychic Lin = $ 1,920 Psychic Bryce = $ 1,920 Nurse Sachiko = $ 2,450 Ace Trainer Beckett = $ 3,500 Ace Trainer Kassandra = $ 3,500 Twist MountainTotal Cash = $ 29,120 Hiker Terrell = $ 1,960 Hiker Darrell = $ 1,960 Ace Trainer Caroll = $ 3,570 Battlegirl Sharon = $ 1,960 Worker Brand = $ 2,450 Worker Heath = $ 2,450 Worker Rob = $ 2,450 Worker Cairn = $ 2,450 Doctor Hank = $ 3,500 Hiker Neil = $ 1,960 Blackbelt Teppei = $ 1,960 Worker Rich = $ 2,450 Dragonspiral TowerTotal Cash = $ 7,280 (Surf to the right of entrance) Ace Trainer Jesse = $ 3,640 Ace Trainer Jamie = $ 3,640 Route 8Total Cash = $ 13,140 PKMN Ranger Lewis = $ 3,570 Parasol Lady Melita = $ 2,000 PKMN Ranger Annie = $ 3,570 Fisherman Bruce = $ 2,000 Parasol Lady Lumi = $ 2,000 Moor of IcirrusTotal Cash = $ 11,140 Parasol Lady Mariah = $ 2,000 PKMN Ranger Harry = $ 3,570 PKMN Ranger Chloris = $ 3,570 Fisherman Damon = $ 2,000 Route 9Total Cash = $ 26,190 Biker Phillip = $ 2,080 Roughneck Reese = $ 1,560 Hooligans Jim & Cas = $ 3,640 Biker Zeke = $ 2,080 Roughneck Chance = $ 1,530 Shopping Mall Waitress Flo = $ 2,550 Rich Boy Manuel = $ 5,100 Waiter Bert = $ 2,550 Lady Isabel = $ 5,100 Challenger's CaveTotal Cash = $ 16,820 Ace Trainer Terry = $ 3,850 Ace Trainer Beverly = $ 3,850 Veteran Shaun = $ 4,560 Veteran Julia = $ 4,560 Opelucid CityTotal Cash = $ 6,440 Triple Battle House Ace Trainer Lou = $ 3,710 Ace Trainer Eileen = $ 2,730 Route 10Total Cash = $ 21,790 Battlegirl Amy = $ 2,040 Ace Trainer Johan = $ 3,710 Veteran Karla = $ 4,125 Blackbekt Corey = $ 2,040 Hiker Bret = $ 2,040 Ace Trainer Cheyenne = $ 3,710 Veteran Chester = $ 4,125 Victory RoadTotal Cash = $ 29,870 Ace Trainer Shanta = $ 3,780 Ace Trainer Dwayne = $ 3,780 Veteran Tiffany = $ 4,480 Ace Trainer Cathy = $ 3,780 Blackbelt Tyrone = $ 2,080 Doctor Logan = $ 3,710 Ace Trainer David = $ 3,780 Veteran Martell = $ 4,480 Route 11Total Cash = $ 10,800 Backpacker Talon = $ 1,620 PKMN Ranger Thalia = $ 3,780 Backpacker Corin = $ 1,620 PKMN Ranger Crofton = $ 3,780 Village Bridge Total Cash = $ 4,490 Schoolkid Serena = $ 1,250 Scientist Shannon = $ 3,240 Route 12Total Cash = $ 12,260 Backers Fey & Sue = $ 3,300 PKMN Breeder Ethel = $ 3,180 Schoolkid Jem = $ 1,300 Schoolkid Ann = $ 1,300 PKMN Breeder Eustace = $ 3,180 Route 13Total Cash = $ 32,880 Lass Fey = $ 1,040 Youngster Astor = $ 1,040 Artist Zach = $ 3,300 Fisherman Jones = $ 2,160 Fisherman Mick = $ 2,120 Parasol Lady Laura = $ 2,160 Fisherman Pete = $ 2,160 Fisherman Vince = $ 2,160 Twins Emy & Lin = $ 1,040 Gentleman Yan = $ 6,750 Socialite Marian = $ 6,750 Blackbelt Benjamin = $ 2,160 Route 14Total Cash = $ 15,970 Fisherman Sid = $ 2,160 Blackbelt Jay = $ 2,160 Backpacker Vicki = $ 1,650 Hiker Jebediah = $ 2,160 Ace Trainer Kipp = $ 3,920 Ace Trainer Junko = $ 3,920 Abundant ShrineTotal Cash = $ 4,080 Youngster Wes = $ 1,020 Lass Lurleen = $ 1,020 Lass Maki = $ 1,020 Youngster Lester = $ 1,020 Route 15Total Cash = $ 15,620 Pokefan Elliot = $ 3,780 PKMN Ranger Shelly = $ 3,780 Battlegirl Susie = $ 2,160 PKMN Ranger Keith = $ 3,780 Hiker Kit = $ 2,120 Route 16Total Cash = $ 10,430 Policeman Daniel = $ 2,350 Cyclist Krissa = $ 1,880 Backpacker Stephen = $ 1,440 Backpacker Peter = $ 1,440 Cyclist Hector = $ 1,880 Backpacker Lora = $ 1,440 Route 1Total Cash = $ 8,960 (Surf west of Route 1) PKMN Ranger Brenda = $ 3,500 Fisherman Sean = $ 1,960 PKMN Ranger Claude = $ 3,500Route 17Total Cash = $ 1,960 Fisherman Lydon = $ 1,960 skipped swimmers Route 18Total Cash = $ 11,160 Hiker Jeremiah = $ 1,960 Backpacker Kumiko = $ 1,500 Backpacker Sam = $ 1,500 Veteran Ray = $ 4,240 Battlegirl Hillary = $ 1,960 skipped swimmers P2 LaboratoryTotal Cash = $ 2,940 Scientist Nathan = $ 2,940 Unova GymsTotal Cash = $ 105,315Striation City Leader Cilean - 8,715 Leader Cress - 8,715 Leader Chili - 8,715 Nacrene City Leader Lenora - 10,920 Castelia City Leader Burgh - 11,050 Nimbasa City Leader Elesa - 11,180 Driftveil City Leader Clay - 11,310 Mistralton City Leader Skyla - 11,440 Icirrus City Leader Brycen - 11,570 Opelucid City Leader Iris - 11,700 Suneet, FunkPk and Zymogen 3 Link to comment
Anthrazit Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 3 hours ago, ImFunk said: Increased difficulty + increased payout (maybe longer cooldown?) > completely nerfing NPCs. 20 minutes ago, Staggiie said: That's why people pick out the worthwhile ones (ones that pay 3-6k+) and ignore the rest. I personally do a npc run that nets around 500k for like 3-4 hours of grind. (All gyms + most Trainers that give 3k+) So, I think SOME NPC payouts are fair. An aspect to this came to my mind: In theory, if the NPCs were more challenging and gave more money, it could be more fun to fight them. The ratio of money gained/time invested could be the same as before if wanted (less disruptive while still achieving to provide something that feels more rewarding). But now, the NPCs have become challenging to a point where (more) newer players might fail to beat them. While not providing more income/hour, this shift might still have a negative impact on the economy as the income of newer players drops. That change would disadvantage players who have less (game progress/comps/...) Rebattling (non gym leader) NPCs could be seen as an entry-level job (another one for example 'Payday' without Pickup) that any new player may pursue to farm money. It might be important that it is still available to those who need it. More advanced players could still pursue the more challenging tasks available to them (rebattling gyms, farming BPs which value rose, ...) Darkshade 1 Link to comment
Darkshade Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Zymogen said: But having a large quantity of low-payout trainers is hilariously boring and time consuming, right? Sure, but the request seems to be increase their payout and balance it by making them harder. While more interesting, you've just made money harder to obtain for the average populace, and made those battles longer (although time:reward may be higher overall) They're low end easy mobs, we have other NPCs that already fulfil the requested role. Anthrazit 1 Link to comment
Anthrazit Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Darkshade said: Sure, but the request seems to be increase their payout and balance it by making them harder. While more interesting, you've just made money harder to obtain for the average populace, and made those battles longer (although time:reward may be higher overall) They're low end easy mobs, we have other NPCs that already fulfil the requested role. I demand to be cited as a scource XD Link to comment
Darkshade Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, Anthrazit said: I demand to be cited as a scource XD I didn't quite reach your post before I replied, but I'm amused that it's almost a mirror of the same sentiment. Anthrazit 1 Link to comment
razimove Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 29 minutes ago, Darkshade said: I didn't quite reach your post before I replied, but I'm amused that it's almost a mirror of the same sentiment. Imo, increasing NPC payouts isn't asking to much, but as a counter-measure to this, you guys could introduce another incentive to 'burn' money, kinda like braces/balls/etc that would help control inflaction. Link to comment
Risadex Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 10 hours ago, Darkshade said: They're low end easy mobs, we have other NPCs that already fulfil the requested role. I Guess there are a lot of easy mobs already. An Sugestion *which could be not so easy to implement* would be each region with a fifferent degree of difficulty*. Like: Kanto = Easy NPcs, Hoenn = Medium Npcs (for end game start) then Unova with Harder NPc (More payout, but more difficulty) *This could apply just after the person have unlock the lvl cap in all regions. ATM Only way I have some "challenge (Iam waiting all itens/moves get working so it ll be really funny tho) " is elite 4(and most people hate it), beside that, PVE is boring (Maybe those Rain teams gyms can get unprepared people sometimes, but 0 cooldown when u get wiped doesnt encourage yourself give more effort). I dont play them just because the challenge, but because the reward too, so you dont need to cross over a whole country in your bycicle to get some changes while u can focus on a niche of pve. Lets wait for dungeons and see what happens Link to comment
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