The tier council needs a revamp because its stuck in 2012

[ThinkNicer]

On 10/7/2020 at 1:28 AM, Gunthug said:

This is the best point in the entire thread, and one I hadn't quite been able to put my finger on until now

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Discord has ruined pvp discussion and forum engagement. Now there is no longer a central point where people can gather to have proper discussions. The most common places where I see any 'discussing' taking place is the monthly movement discussion threads and the freakin' psl discord. And it seems like any sort of discussion is even discouraged outside of the movement discussion threads. And then TC or staff members can look surprised when it comes to common complaints about the metagame. Hard to detect for them, because the discussions are.... everywhere.

 

The big disadvantage of the aforementioned places is that there is little to no moderation, which makes it impossible to have focused discussion on a single topic, leading to no real conclusion of the discussions that take place. 

 

In the movement discussion threads mods can be stricter with one off joke comments, because we often see how they derail discussion for pages. Discord itself lends itself towards fast paced back and forth between multiple people and it gets very chaotic, really fast. 

 

A way to mend some of these issues would be stricter moderation on forums (when it comes to discussion threads) and a way to promote and engage people in discussions on discord. Streamline them all to one place and have rules in place. A slowchat of 10m can already do wonders because it actually encourages people to make betrer, more nuanced posts. Discord is a wonderful platform as long as it is used wisely for the purpose you want it to serve.

 

Edit: oh and any update on all of this @Munya?

Edited October 31, 2020 by ThinkNicer

[DoubleJ]

Agree. Discord sniped forum activity with with 360 headshot long ago, but TC does need reform. If there are only a handful of TC members and they still can't get their shit together to vote on a decision we need to find fresh involvement. 

 

Different TC for each tier has been done before and is effective, although previously any decisions by a lower tier had to be approved by an "overseeing committee" that at times has less information and resulted in a log jam of no activity. If different councils are created, we need to look closely at how.

 

We also need transparency by devs and sgm's regarding rules TC have when implementing bans, which means we will need to refine the tier policies (again oh God).

 

We should probably also incentivize TC involvement. Can we make it so TC members have priority in tournaments and possibly even matchmaking? Can we provide them with some form of monthly reward such as monthly RP? 

[pachima]

8 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Agree. Discord sniped forum activity with with 360 headshot long ago, but TC does need reform. If there are only a handful of TC members and they still can't get their shit together to vote on a decision we need to find fresh involvement. 

 

Different TC for each tier has been done before and is effective, although previously any decisions by a lower tier had to be approved by an "overseeing committee" that at times has less information and resulted in a log jam of no activity. If different councils are created, we need to look closely at how.

 

We also need transparency by devs and sgm's regarding rules TC have when implementing bans, which means we will need to refine the tier policies (again oh God).

 

We should probably also incentivize TC involvement. Can we make it so TC members have priority in tournaments and possibly even matchmaking? Can we provide them with some form of monthly reward such as monthly RP? 

It's almost like you wanted a salary system in TC.

*flees*

[Paul]

The fact that this thread is 30 days old with no official response is quite ironic 

[noomuch]

im not even suprised about that anymore

Quote

The fact that this thread is 30 days old with no official response is quite ironic 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by noomuch

[Munya]

22 hours ago, ThinkNicer said:

Edit: oh and any update on all of this @Munya?

Not really, all I can really say is we intend on going over all of the Policies at some point, hopefully soon, its not something that is out of our minds.

[NOREButler]

People: "TC needs a revamp"
Munya: "Ok, lets put Stealian and JJ in "

 

If you actually want a competent TC, wouldnt it make more sense to (considering you´d think that giving 1/3 of the votes avilable to any one team ever is a good idea - which it isnt) contribute those to the best team in the game and people who are actively and successfully competing?

 

Why is someone who attempts to argue against banning a pokemon, but then continues listing reasons that support a ban, in the tier council? When someone cant even reflect on their own words, because they are so terribly biased; why does someone like that get to have a say in tiering?!

 

Why is JJ in TC?

 

Why dont you just kick Zebra, who even openly admitted to give 0 fucks and doesnt even play the game anymore?

 

Will TC discussions be more transparent in the future since theres one team holding 1/3 of the votes? I honestly cant stress enough how stupid that is...

 

_

People complain about how TC doesnt work out and you go ahead and make it even worse. Its so damn confusing.

[LifeStyleNORE]

I said this before but I'll say it again, it doesn't really matter who is in TC if the policies stay the same. You could even add Daryl to TC and it wouldn't make a single difference.

[Laz]

Different TC members for each Tier, let's go.

[Stelian]

1 hour ago, NOREButler said:

People: "TC needs a revamp"
Munya: "Ok, lets put Stealian and JJ in "

 

If you actually want a competent TC, wouldnt it make more sense to (considering you´d think that giving 1/3 of the votes avilable to any one team ever is a good idea - which it isnt) contribute those to the best team in the game and people who are actively and successfully competing?

 

Why is someone who attempts to argue against banning a pokemon, but then continues listing reasons that support a ban, in the tier council? When someone cant even reflect on their own words, because they are so terribly biased; why does someone like that get to have a say in tiering?!

 

Why is JJ in TC?

 

Why dont you just kick Zebra, who even openly admitted to give 0 fucks and doesnt even play the game anymore?

 

Will TC discussions be more transparent in the future since theres one team holding 1/3 of the votes? I honestly cant stress enough how stupid that is...

 

_

People complain about how TC doesnt work out and you go ahead and make it even worse. Its so damn confusing.

It's sir Stelian for you or your highness, thanks dead buddy. 

[EricRasp]

I hoped there would at least be an announcement inducting the new members into the tier council. Disappointed.

[Munya]

1 hour ago, EricRasp said:

I hoped there would at least be an announcement inducting the new members into the tier council. Disappointed.

Stelian, Pachima, and DoubleJ have been added to the TC

[Laz]

21 hours ago, Munya said:

Stelian, Pachima, and DoubleJ have been added to the TC

Will we have a different TC system or, as before, everyone can have their say in all tiers? Like i can't imagine JJ debating about LC and pachima about Doubles, i might be wrong but I don't think they're knowledgeable enough to make decisions in tiers they've never played.? 

[pachima]

3 minutes ago, Laz said:

Will we have a different TC system or, as before, everyone can have their say in all tiers? Like i can't imagine JJ debating about LC and pachima about Doubles , i might be wrong but I don't think they're knowledgeable enough to make decisions in tiers they've never played.? 

:thonking

[Laz]

2 minutes ago, pachima said:

:thonking

 

[fredrichnietze]

remember years ago when i was the only person against the outrage nerf when staff first started getting into tiering "lets not ban anything" and i was the only person outspoken against it? 

feels kinda great to eventually be validated as right all along. 

 

and lmafo about "maybe they fixed it since i left" i left years ago and a lot of this was a problem then.

Edited March 29, 2021 by fredrichnietze

[ThinkNicer]

So are we going to talk about how two new members got shadow invited and one PokeMMO team now holds 4 out of 9 seats in the TC? That just means a whole team needs just one vote to make tier changes, this is pretty ridiculous. Note: I don't have anything against the players promoted, good on them, but it doesn't seem like the TC is getting any more transparent which -newsflash- was and is the main problem with TC.

[RysPicz]

28 minutes ago, ThinkNicer said:

So are we going to talk about how two new members got shadow invited and one PokeMMO team now holds 4 out of 9 seats in the TC?

I don't even know who's TC lmao

[razimove]

2 hours ago, ThinkNicer said:

So are we going to talk about how two new members got shadow invited and one PokeMMO team now holds 4 out of 9 seats in the TC? That just means a whole team needs just one vote to make tier changes, this is pretty ridiculous. Note: I don't have anything against the players promoted, good on them, but it doesn't seem like the TC is getting any more transparent which -newsflash- was and is the main problem with TC.

Who are the new tc?

[Imperial]

3 minutes ago, razimove said:

Who are the new tc?

Madara and Lunarck

[Munya]

Teams are fluid, what team a person is in now may not be the same team they are in tomorrow, we do not hire or turn people away based on team affiliation.  If people are found to be attempting to manipulate the tiers, they will be dealt with as they have been in the past.  As it is now I have no reason to believe anyone is currently trying to do such a thing.

 

7 hours ago, RysPicz said:

I don't even know who's TC lmao

 

 

[Imperial]

12 minutes ago, Munya said:

Teams are fluid, what team a person is in now may not be the same team they are in tomorrow, we do not hire or turn people away based on team affiliation.  If people are found to be attempting to manipulate the tiers, they will be dealt with as they have been in the past.  As it is now I have no reason to believe anyone is currently trying to do such a thing.

 

I think the issue is members from the TC currently aren't active or engaging in discussions, except for a vocal few.

 

A few people have suggested for transparency regarding why each TC member will vote to ban/unban a mon going forwards which I also support - this would give us insight into why each member made their respective decision.

 

Also regarding the link you posted above I think it was the fact that there was no formal post or announcement like you would do with the movement discussion threads - I only found out by chance because someone told me.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Imperial

[RysPicz]

Let's be honest guys, it's not like TC has any power to change things anyway. We still got King's Rock, Quick Claw and evasion abilities enabled despite our ongoing rants. OU is stale as fuck and nothing is changing in that tier for stupidly long time. UU and NU are the only tiers which are getting some changes from time to time and probably only there TC has any power to do anything because usage does the rest.

 

You could just leave Daryl in TC and the effect would be exactly the same.

[BaliAds]

1 minute ago, RysPicz said:

You could just leave Daryl in TC

+1

[Munya]

12 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

Let's be honest guys, it's not like TC has any power to change things anyway. We still got King's Rock, Quick Claw and evasion abilities enabled despite our ongoing rants. OU is stale as fuck and nothing is changing in that tier for stupidly long time. UU and NU are the only tiers which are getting some changes from time to time and probably only there TC has any power to do anything because usage does the rest.

 

You could just leave Daryl in TC and the effect would be exactly the same.

There are plans to change those items to where they reveal themselves much like air baloons do when the pokemon is sent out.