Hidden Ability Placement Discussion Thread

[gbwead]

2 hours ago, TohnR said:

You do realize that raising Crobat now would imply that multiple mons must be considered for a ban in Under Used ?
Because Crobat is the only mon that currently can be used in offense / bulky offense against threats such as Yanmega, Heracross & Durant 
Golbat can't compare with Crobat at all for what they do in UU. Raise it now and you also have to at least put Yanmega in BL range

I don't necessarily agree. Golbat and Crobat can both deal with those threats, they do so differently but they still can handle them. Heracross seems a little bit more difficult for Golbat, but it's imo not the end of the world.

 

Keep in mind that Gligar Immunity is amazing vs Heracross and Quagsire is amazing vs Durant. As central as Crobat may be, UU is still gaining new tools every day and the sooner UU players adapt to a metagame without Crobat, the better. They will have to adapt eventually, might as well rip off the bandaid now, waiting only makes it harder later.

 

 

[gbwead]

2 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

he can using volt switch and enter with something that could KO serperior, such as crobat, or can be very annoying to one, like Togekiss Infinity Flinch. Also, he can trick Choice Scarf and weak serperior a lot, because serperior depend of Leaf Storm boosts to other attacks do damage. Obviously some serperiors start running Assault Gear, and trick rotom is one of the reasons(others include survive Bug Buzz from +0 volca and Kingdra Hurricane), but using the item means that he can't run Glare, so Scarf Users + Weavile/Crobat can outspeed and do a lot of damage, if not KO it, and he can't run Subseed, giving hope to defensive teams (still struggle if let Serperior stacks boosts and become a Snowball.)

Defog is still prevented in those scenarios and that can potentially still be a good thing for the Serperior player. For instance, if you Volt Switch into Togekiss or Crobat, well they both takes rocks to the face.

[Umbramol]

i see assumptions over crobat rising while its just above the cut off at the moment and we have over a month for the next usage change on the tiers. 

irrelevant matter and no action needed at all about it. crobat is a UU staple and while it always was a pokemon that can function in OU pretty well it ended up not moving up. 

with infiltrator there is a bigger possibility yes. but the best action is to wait and see. discussing about moving it is just theories. it belongs to UU for now and let it be there until the community decides to move it up if they want to by using. this matter should end, its unhealthy for tiering

[Munya]

3 hours ago, Umbramol said:

i see assumptions over crobat rising while its just above the cut off at the moment and we have over a month for the next usage change on the tiers. 

irrelevant matter and no action needed at all about it. crobat is a UU staple and while it always was a pokemon that can function in OU pretty well it ended up not moving up. 

with infiltrator there is a bigger possibility yes. but the best action is to wait and see. discussing about moving it is just theories. it belongs to UU for now and let it be there until the community decides to move it up if they want to by using. this matter should end, its unhealthy for tiering

It was well below before it released and then when it did saw a massive spike, its not entirely an assumption.

[Umbramol]

28 minutes ago, Munya said:

It was well below before it released and then when it did saw a massive spike, its not entirely an assumption.

yes but its just above the cut off point and we have more than a month to go and many more hidden abilities to be introduced in an OU meta that is unstable af at the moment. why would be discussing to move it ourselves? it makes 0 sense

Edited October 23, 2022 by Umbramol

[gbwead]

4 minutes ago, Umbramol said:

yes but its just above the cut off point and we have more than a month to go and many more hidden abilities to be introduced in an OU meta that is unstable af at the moment. why would be discussing to move it ourselves? it makes 0 sense

Why are you assuming that we have more than a month to go? All the tiers are in complete chaos. TC should be allowed to make changes at any time to reflect what is going on in each tier which mean tiers should not be frozen at all.

[Munya]

We at the very least will be reviewing the things that we have noticed have made big shifts at the end of this month when we normally do usage movements, some things may move based off of it some things may not. 

 

I will be releasing a rough version of that list at the time they are brought up probably sometime in the next 3 days.  TC are also free to bring subjects up, especially if they see any big shifts that i may miss.

[TohnR]

5 hours ago, gbwead said:

Keep in mind that Gligar Immunity is amazing vs Heracross and Quagsire is amazing vs Durant. As central as Crobat may be, UU is still gaining new tools every day and the sooner UU players adapt to a metagame without Crobat, the better. They will have to adapt eventually, might as well rip off the bandaid now, waiting only makes it harder later.

 

Golbat or Quagsire aren't mons that are as splashable you're intentionally missing the point.
With Crobat around Yanmega is already overpowered and would be banned if not for x4 weakness to rocks. Without Crobat around all offensive/bulky offensive/balanced teams no longer can access any soft check for Yanmega other than Snorlax. You already know Yanmega calcs against the UU tier I'm not teaching you anything here

Edited October 24, 2022 by TohnR

[gbwead]

10 minutes ago, TohnR said:

Golbat or Quagsire aren't mons that are as splashable you're intentionally missing the point.
With Crobat around Yanmega is already overpowered and would be banned if not for x4 weakness to rocks. Without Crobat around all offensive/bulky offensive/balanced teams no longer can access any soft check for Yanmega other than Snorlax. You already know Yanmega calcs against the UU tier I'm not teaching you anything here

I'm no missing your point. I'm just trying to let you see that you and umbramol are doing everything you can to hold on to a UU metagame that no longer exist. The sooner you let Crobat go, the sooner we will all be able to enjoy and test the new UU metagame. If that means Yanmegga is broken and needs to get banned, so be it. 

 

I'm fine with waiting to be honest, because there is still a chance Golbat/Crobat will lose their niche in OU because of Poison Heal Gliscor but that's still a long shot. Their usage is still growing. However, I think it's imperative people understand that OU usage will determine where Crobat ends up, it doesn't matter if Crobat is needed in UU or not. Bringing up all that will change in UU with Crobat gone is irrelevant to the decision that TC must take.

[Thenavarro]

16 minutes ago, TohnR said:

Golbat o Quagsire no son mons que son tan salpicables que intencionalmente te estás perdiendo el punto.
Con Crobat alrededor, Yanmega ya está dominado y sería baneado si no fuera por su debilidad x4 a las rocas. Sin Crobat, todos los equipos ofensivos/bulky ofensivos/equilibrados ya no pueden acceder a ningún cheque suave para Yanmega que no sea Snorlax. Ya sabes que Yanmega calcula contra el tier UU. No te estoy enseñando nada aquí.

Golbat responds better to Yanmega than crobat, of course I give you reason in the case of heracross that can be something very harmful with the exit of crobat but in the same way I think that heracross with the HA goes up to OU (if they put it xd) 

[TohnR]

16 minutes ago, gbwead said:

I'm no missing your point. I'm just trying to let you see that you and umbramol are doing everything you can to hold on to a UU metagame that no longer exist. The sooner you let Crobat go, the sooner we will all be able to enjoy and test the new UU metagame. If that means Yanmegga is broken and needs to get banned, so be it. 

 

I'm fine with waiting to be honest, because there is still a chance Golbat/Crobat will lose their niche in OU because of Poison Heal Gliscor but that's still a long shot. Their usage is still growing. However, I think it's imperative people understand that OU usage will determine where Crobat ends up, it doesn't matter if Crobat is needed in UU or not. Bringing up all that will change in UU with Crobat gone is irrelevant to the decision that TC must take.

I'm not going against the usage movements ofc
I was just saying that it's not a good idea to say just bump Crobat in OU now as if it doesn't imply much more than just 1 change
And yes it is very relevant to warn about the consequences and not just randomly decide to bump it even tho it is bellow the cutoff (which is actually not 4.36% this month but that's irrelevant).
The fact that we decided that changes would occur manually was to avoid having to rely on usages in a chaos of new daily additions, and now you are arguing about solely usages and how Ditto and Crobat should raise to OU.
Anyways I understand the idea, don't understand the urge to move them based on 1 week of chaotic ladder usages

Edited October 24, 2022 by TohnR

[Huargensy]

Crobat will go up to OU and it does not matter if it contributes positively to UU, it is a mandatory change to go up by use, if it is seen that something is broken in UU without crobat it should be analyzed and if it were considered a threat, banned from UU

[Munya]

Piloswine line was released earlier tonight.

[LifeStyleNORE]

10 minutes ago, Munya said:

Piloswine line was released earlier tonight.

T h i c c

[Quinn010]

moving everything up to ou doesn't make sense. Not every mon can stay in ou even if they are really good in ou.

xatu is few days in ou with barely games played

Edited October 24, 2022 by Quinn010

[Umbramol]

Complete waste of time arguing really. I've seen no actual reason other than "it will for sure go up so let's mess with it ourselves and drag it up". And influencing decisions on theories.

The players that are supposed to adapt, will adapt at whatever you do with the tiers. But what you guys present is objectively wrong. It's been around a day we are discussing and went nowhere.

Pointless for the community to be trying to take part on this as you guys claim you wanted.

As tohnr stated above correctly you are trying to tweak stuff that have no reason to be tweaked and are working perfectly fine the way they are and eventually you confuse the tiers yourselves.

[Umbramol]

Also crobat has already dropped to 4.74 usage in OU from 5% that it was in the previous day. With 4.73 being the cutoff if I remember correctly. "It will for sure go to OU"

[Blu3Breath]

Let crobat/ditto rise with usage, it is envitable when new things drop they have some hype around it especially ditto since a competitive one is super accessible. Regardless the lower tiers will have to wait for the dust to settle before they can try out some of the new toys (namely Xatu/Espeon whichever happens to fall in favour), though I do find is strange crawdaunt is being tested in UU but not Nidoking. 

Also I doubt it is a point of discussion but Gardevoir's hidden ability did release so by extension Gallade now has access to justified, I didn't see it mentioned but imo it is an upgrade to his previous ability (more reliable to activate). 

[gbwead]

I'll concede that there is still a small chance that none of the bats end up OU. The decisive cut-off point is usually 4.36% @Umbramol. 

 

However, in the case of Ditto, there is absolutely no doubt. Its usage is very very high. For the couple of days it has been OU and despite a big bug for the first 3 days, its usage is equivalent to 7%. Ditto is more common than Hippowdon right now. Even if we were to use the move up cut-off point of the first and second month of every usage cycle (6.7%), Ditto would still be OU by usage. 

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by gbwead

[EmilioGarras]

Ditto should totally be OU IMO

[Umbramol]

1 hour ago, gbwead said:

I'll concede that there is still a small chance that none of the bats end up OU. The decisive cut-off point is usually 4.36% @Umbramol. 

 

However, in the case of Ditto, there is absolutely no doubt. It's usage is very very high. For the couple of days it has been OU and despite a big bug for the first 3 days, its usage is equivalent to 7%. Ditto is more common than Hippowdon right now. Even if we were to usage the move up cut-off point of the first and second month of every usage cycle (6.7%), Ditto would still be OU by usage. 

 

 

 

I personally don't get how you reference it as a possible 7% usage while it sits at 2% but ditto isn't that important. It wasn't something that was meta anywhere before and I'm a firm believer that it will drop in the next months, regardless though it's not something that was a staple before and will disrupt the meta moving it. So you can do as u wish.

Nidoking on the other hand was one of the first hidden abilities and sits at 1.8% usage. 

And I personally don't see it spiking rapidly also in a percentage that will justify putting in OU. I consider this decision wrong aswell but as I said before I will give the benefit of the doubt while I completely disagree with it. And I see other people disagreeing too. 

 

It is sad though that we don't get the chance to use it in lower tiers and we will have to wait. Cause it's certainly not a BL pokemon. It's just a strong wallbreaker.

 

I can keep going on but it feels like I will be hitting my head into a wall doing this.

[Zokuru]

5 hours ago, Umbramol said:

I personally don't get how you reference it as a possible 7% usage while it sits at 2% but ditto isn't that important. It wasn't something that was meta anywhere before and I'm a firm believer that it will drop in the next months, regardless though it's not something that was a staple before and will disrupt the meta moving it. So you can do as u wish.

Nidoking on the other hand was one of the first hidden abilities and sits at 1.8% usage. 

And I personally don't see it spiking rapidly also in a percentage that will justify putting in OU. I consider this decision wrong aswell but as I said before I will give the benefit of the doubt while I completely disagree with it. And I see other people disagreeing too. 

 

It is sad though that we don't get the chance to use it in lower tiers and we will have to wait. Cause it's certainly not a BL pokemon. It's just a strong wallbreaker.

 

I can keep going on but it feels like I will be hitting my head into a wall doing this.

"[...]its usage is equivalent to 7%. Ditto is more common than Hippowdon right now. "

 

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Equivalent+definition

 

 

Applies to Nidoking too

 

 

[Umbramol]

1 minute ago, Zokuru said:

"[...]its usage is equivalent to 7%. Ditto is more common than Hippowdon right now. "

 

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Equivalent+definition

 

 

Applies to Nidoking too

 

 

well done you contributed greatly

[epicdavenport]

On 10/22/2022 at 7:50 PM, gbwead said:

We already have Mienshao. If you give us another Regen mon, PokeMMO becomes unplayable. And for the record, I have nothing against Regen mons, I have a problem with the way the 1 hour time limit is set up. Regen mons + 1 hour time limit = dead game.

 

If the devs plan to add regen mons, they need to change the 1 hour time limit to something like this:

 

Would a discussion about nerfing the hp given from regenerator ever be a viable option? 

[caioxlive13]

Now we have a list of mons present on UT, i will give my opinion to move up some mons to NU from untiered, only for new players when look the dex and search mons to their team kept aware of the niche of the mon. (Also some of them could be unhealty to UT aand i don't want to create a BL to untiered, specifically for Grand Slam.)

Ditto - NU/Untiered(Soon or later will be OU)

Pikachu - NU/Untiered

Qwilfish - NU/Untiered

Sableye - NU/Untiered

Sharpedo - NU/Untiered

About Cinccino and Luxray, they i don't consider too viable to NU. Luxray is worse than Eelektross. Cinccino cannot do anything because of stupid high amount of Physical Tank mons on tier. Not all of those are walls, but they have a high defense stat, like Steelix for example.

Edited October 24, 2022 by caioxlive13