Hidden Ability Placement Discussion Thread

[Deliburd]

For all those who complain, I am not an expert or a competitive gamer but always, when something new is implemented, you have to learn how to use it. The same when you play against, you must learn to defend yourself, that's what it's all about, it's a game. You are playing. 

Sometimes nothing is good for people, they complained for years about something that is now implemented and now they complain too. They wanted Johto? They also have Johto next year. Enjoy old man, learn to play, have fun, if you don't like it, go play Showdown. When you learn, come back.

[Imperial]

3 minutes ago, Deliburd said:

For all those who complain, I am not an expert or a competitive gamer but always, when something new is implemented, you have to learn how to use it. The same when you play against, you must learn to defend yourself, that's what it's all about, it's a game. You are playing. 

Sometimes nothing is good for people, they complained for years about something that is now implemented and now they complain too. They wanted Johto? They also have Johto next year. Enjoy old man, learn to play, have fun, if you don't like it, go play Showdown. When you learn, come back.

You're completely missing the point. Why should a Breloom or Gliscor alpha, two mons which change the meta greatly, randomly be dropped in a middle of a tournament, where many players are unaware this happened, only to suddenly have to face one in the later stages.

 

How can you adapt to this when you only have 10 minutes to prepare each round? A lot of the players are also teamless, so don't have the friends or resources to immediately prepare/use their own.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Imperial

[Munya]

1 minute ago, Deliburd said:

For all those who complain, I am not an expert or a competitive gamer but always, when something new is implemented, you have to learn how to use it. The same when you play against, you must learn to defend yourself, that's what it's all about, it's a game. You are playing. 

Sometimes nothing is good for people, they complained for years about something that is now implemented and now they complain too. They wanted Johto? They also have Johto next year. Enjoy old man, learn to play, have fun, if you don't like it, go play Showdown. When you learn, come back.

I think they understand that but the thing is you can't prepare for something that wasn't a thing when the tournament started.  Also they want to be able to get out there and catch these mons and can't during the middle of a tournament.  I don't know what the solution is but I would hate to see tournaments canceled for an undefined amount of time.

[Deliburd]

Just now, Munya said:

I think they understand that but the thing is you can't prepare for something that wasn't a thing when the tournament started.  Also they want to be able to get out there and catch these mons and can't during the middle of a tournament.  I don't know what the solution is but I would hate to see tournaments canceled for an undefined amount of time.

There is no solution, they must choose if they want to go capture Alphas or participate in the tournament. They can't always do everything they want, sometimes you have to choose, I would also like to farm gyms while I capture shinys but I have to choose and I go in search of my shinys leaving gyms aside. The easiest thing is always to complain but I think it is time for them to see that they are doing important things towards the future and to value them, they complain about everything.

[caioxlive13]

1 hour ago, Munya said:

I think they understand that but the thing is you can't prepare for something that wasn't a thing when the tournament started.  Also they want to be able to get out there and catch these mons and can't during the middle of a tournament.  I don't know what the solution is but I would hate to see tournaments canceled for an undefined amount of time.

A good could be make alpha swarms appear on pre-defined times of day, and at least 60 minutes before any tournament starts. So staff will have some time to ban the HA to Ubers before tour starts and not harm most parte of people. After the tour ends, just unban it.

Edited October 22, 2022 by caioxlive13

[Munya]

Sharpedo will be placed in NU for now.

[hernjet]

1 hour ago, Munya said:

Creo que lo entienden, pero es que no te puedes preparar para algo que no existía cuando empezó el torneo. También quieren poder salir y atrapar estos monstruos y no pueden durante la mitad de un torneo. No sé cuál es la solución, pero odiaría ver cancelados los torneos por un tiempo indefinido.

I think the best thing to do is that as soon as an alpha swarm comes out, its ability is prohibited for all tiers for a period of 6 hours or 12 hours, so that it cannot be used immediately in the tournament on duty.

[razimove]

6 minutes ago, Munya said:

Sharpedo will be placed in NU for now.

Now this I do think it might be a mistake given the amount of tools, sharpedo has access to, including priority which can negate some of what axel mentioned, paired with zen headbutt which can help lessen the burden vs poliwrath and golbat (and I'm assuming no need for that if they're jumping to UU soon ish), scouting tools that bring a lot of value to him such as protect, or even gimmick niche things like destiny bond. Not to mention it packs decent enough sp.atk to consider a mixed set, or even a sp.atk set to catch people off guard. 

Edited October 22, 2022 by razimove

[TohnR]

20 minutes ago, hernjet said:

I think the best thing to do is that as soon as an alpha swarm comes out, its ability is prohibited for all tiers for a period of 6 hours or 12 hours, so that it cannot be used immediately in the tournament on duty.

Actually this is the best solution. It still implies that every player has to prepare within the 6/12 hours for the changes but it's better than having a mon suddenly be available in the middle of an ongoing tournament

[Axelgor]

17 minutes ago, razimove said:

Now this I do think it might be a mistake given the amount of tools, sharpedo has access to, including priority which can negate some of what axel mentioned, paired with zen headbutt which can help lessen the burden vs poliwrath and golbat (and I'm assuming no need for that if they're jumping to UU soon ish), scouting tools that bring a lot of value to him such as protect, or even gimmick niche things like destiny bond. Not to mention it packs decent enough sp.atk to consider a mixed set, or even a sp.atk set to catch people off guard. 

It's versatile, but is no where close to deserving an auto ban from NU before even being tested. 40 base defenses means its hard to get it in, and no matter which set you pick there is always going to be an answer for it. Giving it speed boost has made it better, but it's issue has always been it's frailty, anyone who's used it knows that

[PoseidonWrath]

Sharpedo is imo overhyped, sure speedboost made it better but i dont see how people are scared of it

 

Same thing can be said about Alakazam where many people were afraid of it. Didnt hear any complain about it being in NU.

 

Glad Sharpedo got voted to NU

[Munya]

Mincinno has been released

[epicdavenport]

As much as I'd love Cincinno to stay NU is there anything in there tier taking it's hits other than steelix?

[razimove]

17 minutes ago, epicdavenport said:

As much as I'd love Cincinno to stay NU is there anything in there tier taking it's hits other than steelix?

bronzor? 

[Stokes]

Crawdant OU, nidoking Uu (the same category Felaligatr... Or they OU) , nidoqueen NU

[caioxlive13]

Cinccino can stay on NU, not too broken. Multi-hit isn't problematic because KR got nerfed.

[epicdavenport]

35 minutes ago, razimove said:

bronzor? 

Completely forgot about it and ferroseed 

[PoseidonWrath]

49 minutes ago, epicdavenport said:

As much as I'd love Cincinno to stay NU is there anything in there tier taking it's hits other than steelix?

l was thinking the same that Cincinno might be a bit of a threat, but after calcing some stuff i have found some pretty good answers.

 

Escalavier can tank hits if its physical defensive:

252 Atk Choice Band Cinccino Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Escavalier: 65-80 (36.7 - 45.1%) -- approx. 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

if it isnt banded:

252 Atk Cinccino Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 55-70 (31 - 39.5%) -- approx. 3.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Bronzor and Steelix got named.

 

Gligar is a solid answer:

252 Atk Choice Band Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 65-80 (37.7 - 46.5%) -- approx. 3HKO

 

Magneton:

252 Atk Choice Band Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Magneton: 45-60 (36 - 48%) -- approx. 3HKO

 

 

i might have missed some others but these mons popped into my head first.

 

 

[DrTylerGrey]

I think Cinccino isnt a pain for NU, there are plenty of mons able to stop it same just like Poseidon here, adding to the list people is able to use Aggron, Probopass any rocky helmet user would even give a lot of damage to Cinccino on a 5 hit Tail Slap. Could be a hell of a good late sweeper if the player playing against it chokes losing the things that handle it.

9 minutes ago, PoseidonWrath said:

l was thinking the same that Cincinno might be a bit of a threat, but after calcing some stuff i have found some pretty good answers.

 

Escalavier can tank hits if its physical defensive:

252 Atk Choice Band Cinccino Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Escavalier: 65-80 (36.7 - 45.1%) -- approx. 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

if it isnt banded:

252 Atk Cinccino Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 55-70 (31 - 39.5%) -- approx. 3.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Bronzor and Steelix got named.

 

Gligar is a solid answer:

252 Atk Choice Band Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 65-80 (37.7 - 46.5%) -- approx. 3HKO

 

Magneton:

252 Atk Choice Band Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Magneton: 45-60 (36 - 48%) -- approx. 3HKO

 

 

i might have missed some others but these mons popped into my head first.

 

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by DrTylerGrey

[Imperial]

4 hours ago, Deliburd said:

There is no solution, they must choose if they want to go capture Alphas or participate in the tournament. They can't always do everything they want, sometimes you have to choose, I would also like to farm gyms while I capture shinys but I have to choose and I go in search of my shinys leaving gyms aside. The easiest thing is always to complain but I think it is time for them to see that they are doing important things towards the future and to value them, they complain about everything.

I saw your reaction to my post, and also saw you claim you're not an expert in PvP - after reading your comments please stick to shiny hunting.

 

55 minutes ago, epicdavenport said:

As much as I'd love Cincinno to stay NU is there anything in there tier taking it's hits other than steelix?

Steelix, Bronzor, Escavalier, Magneton, Gligar, Rotom (to an extent) to name a few on the top of my head.

 

1 hour ago, PoseidonWrath said:

Sharpedo is imo overhyped, sure speedboost made it better but i dont see how people are scared of it

 

Same thing can be said about Alakazam where many people were afraid of it. Didnt hear any complain about it being in NU.

 

Glad Sharpedo got voted to NU

Agree - Sharpedo can be a great threat to offensive teams, but overall isn't too strong to be banned in NU.

 

Cincinno should definitely stay in NU as well.

[EmilioGarras]

4 hours ago, Deliburd said:

For all those who complain, I am not an expert or a competitive gamer but always, when something new is implemented, you have to learn how to use it. The same when you play against, you must learn to defend yourself, that's what it's all about, it's a game. You are playing. 

Sometimes nothing is good for people, they complained for years about something that is now implemented and now they complain too. They wanted Johto? They also have Johto next year. Enjoy old man, learn to play, have fun, if you don't like it, go play Showdown. When you learn, come back.

What a way to taint the threat by saying absolutely nothing.

Anyway, the tiering for the moments seems fine. Very excited to see new Pokemon shine and glad we are having this discussion to see the most optimal way to tier new Pokemon.
Sharpedo to NU it's the only thing I disagree, but let's see if it should remain there. 

[LifeStyleNORE]

for the love of god i hope you included HA Tangrowth in this patch

[gbwead]

plz no, regenerator mons will kill the competitive scene

[Munya]

Why do you hate Amoonguss so much?  Pretty sus

[suigin]

1 regen mon is fine, pref a bulky grass. If we get that and slowbro tho lol god save us all