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Hidden Ability Placement Discussion Thread

Munya
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1 hour ago, epicdavenport said:

Would a discussion about nerfing the hp given from regenerator ever be a viable option? 

Not really. It's not that Regenerator mons necessarily are overpowering competitively, it's just that we've went to the direction of pushing down the duration of tournaments with timer rules that might not accurately always predict the "real" winner of the battle but at the very least keeps the tournament going. So while we're trying to be time efficient, meanwhile we would be releasing one of the most central pieces to lengthy stall matches, which are Regenerator Pokemon - pushing our games more and more to what we clearly want to avoid so to me it seems a little bit contradictory in that sense. That's why I kinda think we should really be careful about what kind of hell we want to release to the competitive play in terms of Regenerator Pokemon because mirror matches of both team consisting multiple Regenerator Pokemon would be an absolute hell from tournament duration perspective.

 

While you could make the argument we shouldn't artificially limit the Pokemon for our own convenience, I would also like to point out that our game is already severely lacking some of the offensive powerhouses in terms of legendaries that could shred through a hole to the Regen cores so in that sense we're already in a customized metagame so just because Regen stall exists elsewhere doesn't mean we should carelessly allow it here.

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    • Munya
      Munya

      Votes are in, they tied 3-3 OU-UU, normally this dictates that I don't touch the pokemon, but since it was NU/Untiered previously, it means it is being placed in UU as it is the lowest voted upon tied

    • Umbramol
      Umbramol

      now thats how you ruin tiering!! the assumption that an untiered pokemon will rise to OU as a reason to place it there is straight up stupid. the pokemon has a niche but its nowhere near that lev

    • Munya
      Munya

      You are excused, please step outside next time. it has been marked as suspect, there are some strong opinions that it should be OU, the placement can still be changed if need be, that is just

    10 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

    Not really. It's not that Regenerator mons necessarily are overpowering competitively, it's just that we've went to the direction of pushing down the duration of tournaments with timer rules that might not accurately always predict the "real" winner of the battle but at the very least keeps the tournament going. So while we're trying to be time efficient, meanwhile we would be releasing one of the most central pieces to lengthy stall matches, which are Regenerator Pokemon - pushing our games more and more to what we clearly want to avoid so to me it seems a little bit contradictory in that sense. That's why I kinda think we should really be careful about what kind of hell we want to release to the competitive play in terms of Regenerator Pokemon because mirror matches of both team consisting multiple Regenerator Pokemon would be an absolute hell from tournament duration perspective.

     

    While you could make the argument we shouldn't artificially limit the Pokemon for our own convenience, I would also like to point out that our game is already severely lacking some of the offensive powerhouses in terms of legendaries that could shred through a hole to the Regen cores so in that sense we're already in a customized metagame so just because Regen stall exists elsewhere doesn't mean we should carelessly allow it here.

    Better solution like i sayed is put a Regenerator Clasule. Neither of Regen mons are broken alone, or Regenerator Itself are broken. Mienshao uses regen and aren't broken for example.

    14 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

    specifically for Grand Slam.)

    who cares or how would this matter at all for any tiering decision.

    I feel like mmo isn't ready for regenerator at all, but I also don't think any clause, ban, complex ban is needed on the first weeks, due to how much of a jungle OU is rn, it's just another cherry on the top, just see how it performs in the first week, and make your decision by then, in case some big boy regenerator mon comes along. 

    • Author

    I don't have the sheets to do this anymore so I only do small snippets, the usage % contains everything as does the win%, but i'm only going to bother showing the usage for the top 10.  This is from this mornings UU tournament.

     

    Monster Overall Teams Usage Percentage Winning Teams Win Rate
    Rotom [Heat Rotom] (657) 27 39.71% 16 59.26%
    Crobat (169) 26 38.24% 13 50.00%
    Crawdaunt (342) 23 33.82% 17 73.91%
    Flygon (330) 19 27.94% 10 52.63%
    Bronzong (437) 18 26.47% 7 38.89%
    Toxicroak (454) 14 20.59% 10 71.43%
    Feraligatr (160) 13 19.12% 8 61.54%
    Machamp (68) 13 19.12% 6 46.15%
    Mandibuzz (630) 12 17.65% 9 75.00%
    Druddigon (621) 11 16.18% 8 72.73%
    14 minutes ago, Munya said:

    I don't have the sheets to do this anymore so I only do small snippets, the usage % contains everything as does the win%, but i'm only going to bother showing the usage for the top 10.  This is from this mornings UU tournament.

     

     

    Monster Overall Teams Usage Percentage Winning Teams Win Rate
    Rotom [Heat Rotom] (657) 27 39.71% 16 59.26%
    Crobat (169) 26 38.24% 13 50.00%
    Crawdaunt (342) 23 33.82% 17 73.91%
    Flygon (330) 19 27.94% 10 52.63%
    Bronzong (437) 18 26.47% 7 38.89%
    Toxicroak (454) 14 20.59% 10 71.43%
    Feraligatr (160) 13 19.12% 8 61.54%
    Machamp (68) 13 19.12% 6 46.15%
    Mandibuzz (630) 12 17.65% 9 75.00%
    Druddigon (621) 11 16.18% 8 72.73%

    I recognize one tournament is relatively small sample size but Crawdaunt seems really scary with that usage and winrate. I think if this keeps going for multiple tournaments, moving Crawdaunt to BL seems a reasonable call.

    32 minutes ago, Munya said:

    I don't have the sheets to do this anymore so I only do small snippets, the usage % contains everything as does the win%, but i'm only going to bother showing the usage for the top 10.  This is from this mornings UU tournament.

     

     

    Monster Overall Teams Usage Percentage Winning Teams Win Rate
    Rotom [Heat Rotom] (657) 27 39.71% 16 59.26%
    Crobat (169) 26 38.24% 13 50.00%
    Crawdaunt (342) 23 33.82% 17 73.91%
    Flygon (330) 19 27.94% 10 52.63%
    Bronzong (437) 18 26.47% 7 38.89%
    Toxicroak (454) 14 20.59% 10 71.43%
    Feraligatr (160) 13 19.12% 8 61.54%
    Machamp (68) 13 19.12% 6 46.15%
    Mandibuzz (630) 12 17.65% 9 75.00%
    Druddigon (621) 11 16.18% 8 72.73%

    We knew crawdaunt would be overwhelming in UU.  For me this tournament doesn't say much tbh because it is an adaptation period and the sample is small. 

    But for me we didn't need the tournament to see that crawdaunt doesn't get walled by pretty much anything straight up. The only way I see it managed is by multiple rocky helmets or heavily offensive teams that don't let it come in. I don't see that as a healthy metagame though. Its only big drawback is that it doesn't come into anything and it's a very easy pokemon to revenge kill but I don't think that this alone justifies keeping it in the tier, because with proper support it will always manage to take 1-2 or maybe 3 mons down before it goes.I believe that we should put it into BL soon. As much as I love offense and offensive mons in general, this thing is too much 

    Edited by Umbramol

    On 10/23/2022 at 2:58 AM, Munya said:

    Xatu has been moved to the OverUsed tier. While the tier council does not believe it is broken in the lower tiers, this move is being made preemptively to avoid disrupting the lower tiers under the assumption that Xatu will become OU by usage, either competing with or replacing Espeon in the tier.

    While I definitely understand Xatu could eventually be recognized as a worthy OU Pokemon, its usage in the beginning has been so non-existing that I think you probably should rethink about this one. I know it's been only like 4-5 days but 0,26% usage is still very low and would be just over 1% if it was around for the whole month per this rate. Because it's barely 1/4th on its way to OU at its current usage, I think you should probably let it to UU for now.

    Not sure if it got resolved before in the thread but I feel Ditto is a mon that should stay down in NU. It's easily acquired nature shouldn't be a good reason for it to be in a higher tier as it currently sits close to a similar usage in all 3 tiers. Unless decided it's to strong for the lower tiers of course. Issues with usage movements is a different thing altogether but to add what's the point of playing one of the struggling tiers if everything interesting will be taken from it. 

    Would it be possible to get a usage comparison of Espeon in OU following the release of Eevee HA and Xatu in OU for a similar time frame? I feel it took a good amount of time before Espeon reached its usage peak.

     

    Also, I really think Baton Pass seems better on Espeon compared to Xatu and maybe just maybe that could cause Xatu to remain in lower tiers, but it's really hard to tell. If we want to be on the side of caution and not expose lower tiers to mons uncessarily, I think Xatu should remain OU for the timr being.

    2 hours ago, Munya said:

    Even if i could get it, the situations a bit different now, we have a way to pass HAs without re-breeding, in theory it should have had a quicker rise.

    Probably not the case for Xatu, considering it wasn't viable before HA release. I doubt many people had a comp-ready one just laying in their PC box.

    Edited by LifeStyleNORE

    HA for Noctowl gets released. Seriously, can devs just give the list of the next HA at once because then we'll see if there's any more good HA (Multiscale Nite or Mold Breaker Exca, or Moxiemence / Gyarados Moxie) or kill our hopes already.

    Edited by caioxlive13

    I mean we got a good amount of decent stuff, the thing is it was mostly front loaded so it kinda makes sense that the other stuff is lackluster. Kinda hoping for at least one more big addition near the end.

     

    Ideally Alakazam so offense has another catch all answer to many threats.

    Edited by suigin

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