Munya Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 New things were dropped so 4.36% either way until the new season. To OU: Nothing To UU from OU: Venusaur Empoleon Shaymin To UU from NU: Magneton Druddigon To NU from UU: Scrafty Golbat Sharpedo Slowbro Why should or shouldn't any of the things on this list move? This is the place to say. Stay on topic. PoseidonWrath, gbwead, TohnR and 2 others 1 2 2
gbwead Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 4 hours ago, Munya said: To OU: Nothing Do something. HumongousNoodle 1
Imperial Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 (edited) I didn't realise it was already three months until the next usage movements but I suppose I'll post my initial thoughts: To UU from OU: Venusaur Despite Torkoal not being in UU I'm skeptical about this mon coming back since it proved very threatening in the tier before especially with growth and you can use Whimsicott/Sableye prankster to set up sun and then Memento to gather momentum (e.g. Whimsicott). You could argue that setting up prankster may be difficult when you have Krookodile and Xatu(?) but once set up could be nasty - again this is difficult to confirm without testing. We do have some tools to deal with this (e.g. Empoleon dropping now) but curious whether TC would like to suspect test during the first month? Empoleon People were initially concerned about this being defensive uber when it had access to roost but I think the PP recovery nerf may have taken a hit on this mon but still a very solid mon in the tier, I think this should be fine. Shaymin No issues here, this will likely be a good Roserade replacement to deal with Crawdaunt/Toxicroaks being spammed in the tier because of Crawdaunt and we have Crobat, Rotom-H and several steel types which in theory should be able to handle this okay. To UU from NU: Magneton No issues here. Druddigon No issues here. To NU from UU: Scrafty What are TC's views on this Pokemon? We have Golbat meaning Scrafty will likely need to set up twice to successfully threaten this mon after rocks (will need to provide relevant calcs) but I can't think of many Pokemon which would be able to handle this mon (e.g. immune to prankster). The typical moveset would be - Crunch, Zen Headbutt, Drain Punch which is amazing coverage for the tier. The main way I can think of around this is we have quite a few priority mons (e.g. Gurdurr, Azumarill, Hitmonchan, Blaziken) alongside Ninjask which already has a x4 weakness to rocks. Despite potential answers, is this too strong for the tier when we have banned Pokemon like Venomoth? This is probably my biggest concern and I would personally like this to be discussed the most. Golbat No issues here, was a solid mon in the tier and will be a core part of many teambuilds again (e.g. Piloswine/Steelix, Slowbro, Golbat) Sharpedo Very similar concerns to Scrafty, but with access to a special and mixed set. Curious as to whether TC thinks this should be quick banned or suspect tested? Slowbro No issues here. I feel out of all the tiers, UU will be the one most affected and screwed again. NU could also face some issues, depending on what TC decides about Sharpedo and Scrafty. Edited February 24, 2023 by Imperial Posting my initial thoughts, will need to take a thorough look later to update on any important points I missed. Sargeste, DoubleJ, Vee760 and 4 others 7
pachima Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 nice. Any sort of offense just died in UU. Going back to 60% stall teams in high tournaments. Fun.
gbwead Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 Can we get a clear answer from staff about their intentions regarding OU? We have waited for months and we are no where close to have to slightless clue of what is going on. PP Nerf Regenerator suigin, HumongousNoodle, Quinn010 and 1 other 2 2
Axelgor Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 Great changes, drop them all PoseidonWrath and DridrigoFK 1 1
NiceRNGbro Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 my jolteon is so close, so close to UU... would that be possible? 4,38% usage for now DoubleJ 1
Quinn010 Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 (edited) can we have porygon2 back in uu ? the recovery nerf is rough for it and the amount of offensive mons we got is also good + av Edited February 24, 2023 by Quinn010 RysPicz, PoseidonWrath, Makarovs and 4 others 4 1 2
Eipott Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 First of all. I got no issues with the drops from OU. I'm a little bit scared of scrafty for NU, but the drop of Golbat should help with handling it. Pory-Z got banned when Empoleon moved up to OU. Empoleon moves down with this patch. Pory 2 is not played at Ou and new ways to break it got added with HAs. Also Staraptor and Dugtrio are currently banned from UU (both understandable, but imo we also got ways to handle them in UU) Can we get an update on the ban status? I feel like this bans have to be reconsidered to unban since we got a lot of changes in the past months. PoseidonWrath, DoubleJ and Imperial 3
TohnR Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 Wondering if we should unban PZ since Empoleon is back and we have added Assault Vest in the meantime which is very commonly used on Spiritomb (which traps PZ and is immuned to its adaptability hits) PoseidonWrath, Sargeste, gbwead and 7 others 10
Eipott Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 Well Tohn and Quinn had the same idea with the porygons.
pachima Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 Actual TC chat for NU: - Hum, NU is actually nice to play right now. Maybe a little too nice. - Agreed. What should we do? - Destroy it. - Cool. how? - Let's see. Sharpedo and Scraty surely won't be an issue. - Great. Anything else? - Eh. Golbat was only top 3 mons last time it was in the tier. It won't change much. - Perfect. Are we done? - Nah. Slowbro was also a predominant pokemon in that tier. No reason not to add it. - So are we adding 2 pokemon that can potentiallly shape the meta around them as well as adding 2 potentially uber-offensive pokemons. Superb!!! - Kudos!! - Amazing. - 10/10 - But. What if, in the absolute minimal chance, the tier breaks?. How do we know what is creating unwanted ripples, since we are just adding 4 dominant Pokemon at once? - ?? - What do you mean tier breaks? - Nah, Won't happen. -True. -Also, if it does. It's not an issue at all. Tier was dead for years. It won't hurt them if its dead for a few more months. -Agreed. Besides, Golbat might actually rise again because of Shaymin in UU. -Haha yeah. See? No need to worry. We thought of everything. -And then once shaymin can potentially rise again, Golbat drops again. - Yeah, but by then its 2025. It's fine. Kx, smadagos, gbwead and 3 others 5 1
TohnR Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 Just now, pachima said: Actual TC chat for NU: - Hum, NU is actually nice to play right now. Maybe a little too nice. - Agreed. What should we do? - Destroy it. - Cool. how? - Let's see. Sharpedo and Scraty surely won't be an issue. - Great. Anything else? - Eh. Golbat was only top 3 mons last time it was in the tier. It won't change much. - Perfect. Are we done? - Nah. Slowbro was also a predominant pokemon in that tier. No reason not to add it. - So are we adding 2 pokemon that can potentiallly shape the meta around them as well as adding 2 potentially uber-offensive pokemons. Superb!!! - Kudos!! - Amazing. - 10/10 - But. What if, in the absolute minimal chance, the tier breaks?. How do we know what is creating unwanted ripples, since we are just adding 4 dominant Pokemon at once? - ?? - What do you mean tier breaks? - Nah, Won't happen. -True. -Also, if it does. It's not an issue at all. Tier was dead for years. It won't hurt them if its dead for a few more months. -Agreed. Besides, Golbat might actually rise again because of Shaymin in UU. -Haha yeah. See? No need to worry. We thought of everything. -And then once shaymin can potentially rise again, Golbat drops again. - Yeah, but by then its 2025. It's fine. TC has not said anything yet this is usage based movements bruh... Zymogen, Quinn010 and PoseidonWrath 2 1
Imperial Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 36 minutes ago, Eipott said: First of all. I got no issues with the drops from OU. I'm a little bit scared of scrafty for NU, but the drop of Golbat should help with handling it. Pory-Z got banned when Empoleon moved up to OU. Empoleon moves down with this patch. Pory 2 is not played at Ou and new ways to break it got added with HAs. Also Staraptor and Dugtrio are currently banned from UU (both understandable, but imo we also got ways to handle them in UU) Can we get an update on the ban status? I feel like this bans have to be reconsidered to unban since we got a lot of changes in the past months. Apologies if I misunderstood but Staraptor is way too strong to be unbanned.
AwaXGoku Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 ban scrafty bring back p2 and pz to UU with empo shaymin is fine for UU and would be even more fine with the 2 pory any way we see dugtrio back into UU ? it's definitly broken in pvp overall but if it's not banned in OU why ban it in UU ? OU is a clown party atm, amoongus is free everywhere. Amoongus hide the fact we have soo many things way too strong for our metagame : dgnite multiscale, excadrill, also rain is getting a really huuuuuge buff from the recovery nerf and also serp still broken. Still, something need to be done for OU if you dont plan to make OU better can we at least have a good UU ? (caio dont quote me) HumongousNoodle, smadagos, DoubleJ and 1 other 3 1
TohnR Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 46 minutes ago, AwaXGoku said: bring back p2 and pz to UU with empo 46 minutes ago, AwaXGoku said: dugtrio back into UU I know Gbwead brainwashed you, poor little thing. But this is literally nonsense. The one argument that according to TC got Dugtrio banned from UU was that it trapped all the answers to PorygonZ which it still does And here you are asking for both mons to drop 👍 Seems good mate, keep it going razimove and Makarovs 2
Tawla Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 Shouldnt drop shaymin cause of usage because only rich people buy shaymin, the price is so high for a it thats why people didnt use it TohnR 1
AwaXGoku Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 15 minutes ago, TohnR said: I know Gbwead brainwashed you, poor little thing. But this is literally nonsense. The one argument that according to TC got Dugtrio banned from UU was that it trapped all the answers to PorygonZ which it still does And here you are asking for both mons to drop 👍 Seems good mate, keep it going it's so cute how you always speak so bad on forum and dont ingame but i guess that's what we get with people like you anyway attacking the people to look cool seems to be the game dugtrio can trap the answer to a lot of things in OU and isnt banned magnezone can trap the answer to a lot of things ,same with magneton and arent banned im really up to discuss seriously TohnR 1
gbwead Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 45 minutes ago, TohnR said: I know Gbwead brainwashed you, poor little thing. But this is literally nonsense. The one argument that according to TC got Dugtrio banned from UU was that it trapped all the answers to PorygonZ which it still does And here you are asking for both mons to drop 👍 Seems good mate, keep it going The reason Dugtrio was banned was because it was trapping Roostless Empoleon in the PorygonZ meta. I disagree with the reasoning for that ban since that reasoning could also apply to OU and yet it wasn't banned in OU (Inconsistency #1). Empoleon and PorygonZ were removed from UU in September. This means Dugtrio should have been unbanned in September (Inconsistency #2). Now, if Empoleon/PZ return to UU, the original reason for the Dugtrio ban would again apply to UU. I still disagree with that reason, but at least the ban reason would again apply. Imo, Inconsistency #1 remains and Inconsistency #2 is gone. Since Inconsistency #2 is gone, I did not ask for Dugtrio to be unbanned this month. I don't know why you have to be a condescending little shit towards Awaxgoku when I have clearly never shared his opinion on UU matters. For over a year, Awax has always been pro PZ in UU even when Empoleon moved up and I have been anti PZ. Just because someone happens to agree with me on one point doesn't make them brainwashed. I would like to point out that you are arguing in very bad faith btw. A couple months ago, when I brought up unbanning Dugtrio from OU for the sake of consistency, you justified the ban with the following post: Quote @gbweadThere was a discussion thread for Dugtrio's ban from UU, you can refer to that to know why it was banned. There was another one for its ban from NU ... At least as far as I know there was, and it took a whole year to conclude to a ban, so I'm sure there's plenty of material there for you to read. If you want it to be banned from all tiers you aren't taking the issue from the right angle, if you are just doing that for no purpose other than tiering consistency then you should look around you and realize this is Pokémmo. Yes a mon doesn't have to be proven banworthy in OU for it to be banned in another tier. We have proven it banworthy in NU & UU and from that it was banned, it's all that matters Now you justify the ban with the following post: 1 hour ago, TohnR said: But this is literally nonsense. The one argument that according to TC got Dugtrio banned from UU was that it trapped all the answers to PorygonZ which it still does And here you are asking for both mons to drop 👍 Seems good mate, keep it going A couple of months ago, the ban was no longer justified, but you insisted on keeping the ban regardless because what's done is done, what's proven is proven. Now that the original reason for the ban once again applies, you quickly justified the ban based on that original reason. When the original reason apply, you quote that reason. When the original reason no longer applies, you dodge. That's not how tiering works. Right now, we should probably reconsider the PZ ban because Empoleon is back with Roost. If we were to use the logic you showed when talking about Dugtrio this would not be an option though because: "we have proven PZ banworthy in UU and from that it was banned, it's all that matters, case closed" Deploic and LeZenor 2
TohnR Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 (edited) What you still don't understand is people want a playable tier and don't care about semantics. You're not gonna convince anyone with your silly war, getting support from your team mates is not gonna change anything to the general opinion about Dugtrio. Dugtrio is problematic in OU ? Get it banned. In no way dropping it to UU will solve any of the problems it causes in OU, and will create more in UU. That fight is literally scoring against your own goal. "I would like to point out that you are arguing in very bad faith btw" since I literally mentionned AV Spiritomb as an offensive check to PZ that can also trap it, which complements the return of Roost Empoleon. That changes a lot of things from back then when +1 coverage used to 2HKO. Now if that's not enough to warrant a PZ unban then fine. TC decides that it was just a suggestion. Not gonna fight over it, I don't really care. 1 hour ago, gbwead said: I don't know why you have to be a condescending little shit towards Awaxgoku So I said he's brainwashed and that justifies you saying I'm "a condescending little shit". Only thing that you know is calling out people for doing the exact thing you're doing H24 On that note apologies to Awa if he doesn't realize all of SIÂ people's opinions align on Gb's and noone else's do. That's my bad shouldn't have unveiled the truth to him. Edited February 24, 2023 by TohnR
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