Scootter Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 2 minutes ago, Ajbramberg said: Still assuming no painsplits or wisp which will happen every time. This is why i say you have a skill issue burned mummy gallade is not gonna 2hko anything but you dont think about those things because you lack battle iq. Ive run gallade v cof about 100 times since the buff and it always goes for a wisp and then painsplits same with wheezing Again, you are forgetting that this is something that can happen on the switch. And any smart player would switch out of WoW. Theres no point in telling you that either way since you wont bother listening. like ArtofKilling said enjoy gallade while it lasts. Link to comment
RysPicz Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 (edited) I would just like to mention one thing, Gallade has no counters. By definition, "counter" is a pokemon which in standard battle conditions can always switch into a pokemon and comfortably force it out. Gallade does not have such mons in OU- due to it's sheer power and great coverage, it's capable of 2hkoing pretty much every pokemon in the game with the right move, regardless how it's evtrained or what is it's nature. So mentioning that I can counter Gallade with Scizor's Bullet Punch (????) or by laying hazards or by running a pokemon with focus sash isn't really giving any specific pokemon which can comfortably switch in every time and force Gallade out. Sure, I can deal with it using offensive mons which are faster and got enough power to KO it, but if an offensive mon is switching into Gallade, it's either because you made the right predict or because Gallade has killed something and thus, done it's job. I would probably see the set Psycho Cut/ Sacred Sword/ Night Slash/ Ice Punch with Life Orb as held item and Jolly nature as being most threatening for wallbreaking in OU, this is a set which can disable entire stall playstyle, as much as I don't like it. Edited May 4, 2023 by RysPicz Forgot to include nature/ item KaynineXL, Shadow, JohntheJester and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment
Ajbramberg Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Scootter said: Again, you are forgetting that this is something that can happen on the switch. And any smart player would switch out of WoW. Theres no point in telling you that either way since you wont bother listening. like ArtofKilling said enjoy gallade while it lasts. No bro you dont get to do that if it needs to force a switch out to be a counter then cof is a counter you a cant say it 2hkos cof and then say it wont stick around to get wisped or mummied or pain splited. Because theres no situation where a smart player is gonna just take hits like that and even if they did one shadow ball puts gallade into priority ko range either way so its revenge killed. This is the same as your kingdra argument "just swap out against kingdra" then its a counter lmfao what are you on. Edited May 4, 2023 by Ajbramberg Link to comment
kiwi Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 1 hour ago, RysPicz said: I would just like to mention one thing, Gallade has no counters. By definition, "counter" is a pokemon which in standard battle conditions can always switch into a pokemon and comfortably force it out. Gallade does not have such mons in OU as pachima already said many ou mons have no counters, what does push gallade over the edge? JohntheJester, Quinn010 and Bertolfoso 2 1 Link to comment
RysPicz Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 11 minutes ago, kiwi said: as pachima already said many ou mons have no counters, what does push gallade over the edge? I honestly dunno if it's too op because we didn't even have a proper testing period and I myself can't play/ spec as I'm busy with work, I can just understand why people want it gone. It doesn't need to boost itself with SD or bulkup to be threatening, doesn't need any specific battle conditions, it resists rocks and has amazing coverage. I dunno if we have a Pokémon in OU which can be comparable to Gallade- Breloom needs CB to be threatening, Darmanitan is weak to rocks and its main STAB has recoil... Gallade switches in thanks to uturn or volt switch (or predict) and it's instantly a huge threat. Even if you pick the correct wall for its first move, it's second move can be fatal. All this is just a theory from my side though, like I mentioned I'm really busy with work this week and didn't have any time to spec or play. Hoping I'll catch up after weekend PoseidonWrath 1 Link to comment
ArtOfKilling Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 37 minutes ago, kiwi said: as pachima already said many ou mons have no counters, what does push gallade over the edge? that's so untrue.. let him back that up with 1 example. I'll wait. Link to comment
kiwi Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 8 minutes ago, ArtOfKilling said: that's so untrue.. let him back that up with 1 example. I'll wait. infernape, hydreigon, dnite, mence, reuniclus, breloom now with cc, crawdaunt and more that i cant remember, and before u say jellicent is a counter to infernape check learnsets and no pory doesnt beat mixed dnite JohntheJester 1 Link to comment
ArtOfKilling Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 13 minutes ago, kiwi said: infernape, hydreigon, dnite, mence, reuniclus, breloom now with cc, crawdaunt and more that i cant remember, and before u say jellicent is a counter to infernape check learnsets and no pory doesnt beat mixed dnite P2 Bold beats mixed Dnite if it's max hp, whether you tell me it comes on rocks and draco meteor then thats a different case. 92 Atk Life Orb Dragonite Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 86-101 (44.7 - 52.6%) 252+ SpA Life Orb Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 94-110 (48.9 - 57.2%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO Since you mentioned infernape then i'll reply to mixed infernape, Unless you are talking about Grass Knot set which then gets completely walled by Chandelure. CB Ape gets destroyed by Impish Rocky Garchomp 116 Atk Life Orb Infernape Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 78-94 (37.6 - 45.4%) -- 52% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery You have Calm Unaware clef for nasty plot Hydreigon Milotic,Empoleon for Taunt Hydreigon AV Mienshao and Tyranitar for Hydreigon Aswell. Which mence are you talking about, be specific. If it's Mixed then it's easier than dnite because the fighting moves are bad. Reuniclus? Spiritomb/Sableye completely walls it and that's an enough example. Breloom still struggles vs Amoonguss even if it's cb it doesnt kill it with Zen Headbutt. Crawdaunt gets checked by Toxicroak/Amoonguss What else? Lumiere and JohntheJester 2 Link to comment
razimove Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, ArtOfKilling said: mixed infernape mandibuzz sp.def walls it completely, going with your spread: 116 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Mandibuzz: 75-88 (34.7 - 40.7%) -- 56.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 136 SpA Infernape Overheat vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 69-82 (31.9 - 37.9%) -- 0.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Edited May 4, 2023 by razimove typo Link to comment
ArtOfKilling Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 2 minutes ago, razimove said: mandibuzz sp.def walls it completely, going with your spread: 116 Atk Infernape Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Mandibuzz: 75-88 (34.7 - 40.7%) -- 56.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 136 SpA Infernape Overheat vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 69-82 (31.9 - 37.9%) -- 0.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery Yeah I don't get the comparison of trying to prove Gallade not being broken by bringing other mons which have 1-3 walls/pivots than can check. Link to comment
kiwi Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 11 minutes ago, ArtOfKilling said: P2 Bold beats mixed Dnite if it's max hp, whether you tell me it comes on rocks and draco meteor then thats a different case. 92 Atk Life Orb Dragonite Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 86-101 (44.7 - 52.6%) 252+ SpA Life Orb Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 94-110 (48.9 - 57.2%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO Since you mentioned infernape then i'll reply to mixed infernape, Unless you are talking about Grass Knot set which then gets completely walled by Chandelure. CB Ape gets destroyed by Impish Rocky Garchomp 116 Atk Life Orb Infernape Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 78-94 (37.6 - 45.4%) -- 52% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery You have Calm Unaware clef for nasty plot Hydreigon Milotic,Empoleon for Taunt Hydreigon AV Mienshao and Tyranitar for Hydreigon Aswell. Which mence are you talking about, be specific. If it's Mixed then it's easier than dnite because the fighting moves are bad. Reuniclus? Spiritomb/Sableye completely walls it and that's an enough example. Breloom still struggles vs Amoonguss even if it's cb it doesnt kill it with Zen Headbutt. Crawdaunt gets checked by Toxicroak/Amoonguss What else? porygon is not played bold but lets say it does u would have only 1 counter for dnite and in the teams u dont run porygon u will have to sack 1 mon each turn that it comes in u dont really know what moveset infernape runs u can only be certain of it running cc fire coverage hp ice which leaves room for either grass knot/stone edge to hit either chande or jelli so u cant say either is a counter to infernape because they cant reliable do so they are called checks NP hydre beats all the checks u listed for it bar mienshao which u can run acrobatics(not saying this is good) to ohko or even superpower to 2hko making hydreigon a pokemon with no counters either mixed mence can pretty much 2hko everything besides chansey life orb loom 2hkos amoongus with zen headbutt and after rocks cc+zh is a roll to ohko altho its very unlikely toxicroak/amongus both get 2hkod by crunch reuniclus can carry thunder to deal with spiritomb but it cant beat sableye because of prankster if u want a decent check to deal with gallade u can try bulky mence which is faster than adamant and lives +1 lo psycho cut but u have to be careful of ice punch just like every other mon that has a movetool to deal with all its checks rendering it uncounterable Bertolfoso and Quinn010 2 Link to comment
caioxlive13 Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 23 hours ago, gbwead said: Gallade is OU by usage. It didn't get banned. Correction: It get quickbanned to OU and that's my heavily disagreement on the Gallade's movement. He shouldn't be banned and treated differently than other mons when they got new abilities. All of them got Moved. What are difference you may ask. I answer: When the mon are Banned, even if at the end of month if he are below cut-off, to it had a properly suspect test, TC needs to vote and approval it's drop and it can took a while.(Electrode's Ban, even if he had usage to fall it kept stuck on NUBL for a while, and Alakazam that end more than a year on BL waiting a suspect). However, when he got only Moved, If at the end of month the mon has usage to end dropping, unless TC quickban it in one week they cannot stop the test(Example: Nidoking and Salamence. Both got moved to OU, later get below 4,36% usage and get a properly suspect on tier. Staraptor gets moved and he would drop. It only didn't dropped due to ban approval on 1st day of month.) And like some people point, not me(Here is the message: 23 hours ago, TohnR said: There's absolutely no uber characteristics within Gallade, it shouldn't even have been banned from UU if I'm honest when it already loses against Salamence, Spiritomb, Sableye, Sigilyph and more prominant mons within the tier. so don't trashtalk), some mons of UU can check Gallade. And it mentioned a few examples. Link to comment
caioxlive13 Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 (edited) Sorry for duplicated post, i couldn't read two pagss kf arguments before, so i didn't see nothing there. 15 hours ago, pachima said: Having an higher chance of setting crits is ultimately irrelevant to the Gallade discussion in whether it may or may not be Uber offensive. An increased crit rate has 12.5% odds. If this was any relevant, so would be virtually every rng move, and we would be calling every Pokemon that can carry Ice beam Uber offensive because it has a 10% freeze, which is objectively far superior than a 12.5% crit. Having no counters by itself doesn't mean a Pokemon is Uber offensive either. Just because you are comfortable with 80% of teams being heavy stall that just have to hard switch on whatever comes, neglecting any sort of balance whatsoever, doesn't mean that's how it should be, Also, Gallade isn't the only Pokemon that has no answers. But if this doesn't necessarily mean a Pokemon is Uber offensive, what does? Nothing in particular, but rather a set of different characteristics the pokemon may possess. How often can it come to pressure things? How safe can it shift momentum, even against walls? How risky is it if you fail a prediction and how often is the user forced to predict right? Those are the questions you should try to answer if you want to convince anyone else of what is right in your head. Otherwise, Mixed Dnite would have to be banned. It can't be answered properly. Otherwise, Mixed Garchomp would also have to be banned prior to Gliscor having access to its HA. Why is Gallade any different? Is it just because it is a complete new Pokemon in the tier and you are terrified of at least trying to adapt to it? Is it because it may and it will disrupt the teams you have built so you have to rebuild them and you don't want? Who cares. Adaptation happens, accept it. Adaptation is important, and that is something that has yet to happen here. I would understand if a thread was made one month from now, but it hasn't even been a week. Why? Because it is Uber offensive? Why? Because if it predicts right it has no answers? Then ban other stuff (And having no answers is even a much more serious issue in lower tiers, but I won't digress). In a game that inherently has a delay in how it adapts to new stuff due to how breeding and building works, in a game that can take several months to actually see visible change to stuff implemented, are you telling me a less than a week old test was enough to tell you whatever? If you asked me if Gallade sharpness should be implemented I'd say no. But now that it is here and has already exhausted player's resources, it deserves at the very least a testing period. 1 month? 2 months? I don't know. But definitely not less than a week. Now, to answer my own question. How consistently can Gallade actually be on the field and safely spam their stabs? Not very consistently. It doesn't have many switch-ins in the meta, which means it won't be pressuring often, and most of all, it is absolutely incapable of blindly spamming their stab moves, since both of them are immuned and resisted by lots of Pokemon. Gallade is also forced to predict their stabs so to accomplish anything relevant, and even worse, it is often forced to rely on weaker coverage moves to deal with potential switches. This is not Uber offensive to me, or at least not immediately. I'm not done yet. I've been reading some "arguments" here and I am trying to understand how in the world is anyone supposed to change their minds by reading them. - Gallade is faster than most walls - Great. An offensive Pokemon is faster than walls. Superb. Is this our new metric for being uber worthy? Have we reached so low that we no longer want our walls to comfortably deal with any and every threat but we also want our walls to be faster than them? Wtf? - Gallade has the strongest psychic physical stab - Great. Tyranitar also now has the strongest rock special stab. Please ban it. (Does it sound dumb? Good, cause it should) - blah blah blah crit blah blah blah - Amazing. Ban every tri attack user. Ban every ice beam user. And don't forget Togekiss. Ban it too. See what happens when you don't elaburate further in your "arguments"? When you don't explain what is in your mind that makes you believe something is a problem? All of this may sound right in your head, but by not explaining why it does so you can't convince those who do not see it the same way. But I am not saying Gallade isn't a problem. Actually, I personally think it can be. But why should be my opinion valued higher than a proper test conducted? There is a massive difference between discussing a Pokemon that already was in the tier at full or at least close to full power, in where you can safely say it shouldn't come back, and a brand new Pokemon that has never seen the tier it now is in. Test it. If it remains a glaring problem after the tier has visibly adapted, then you can properly discuss it. TLDR; None. Go read it all. Forgot to mention: Gallade has a Stab that hits like a truck most of metagaming(135 BP Sacred Sword)? Yes. Darmanitan also had one(156 BP Flare Blitz). And it had more attack and speed than Gallade. Why it are on metagaming then? And don't talk about Crit-me not sweepers and eviolite users. Eviolite Users are on OU both normal types, they won't stay anyways in front of a gallade. And Crit-me not sweepers are basically useless after lose half of it's recovery PP and both best options(Sigilyph(If i typed wrong, sorry but i can't name this s... right) and Reuniclus)are Psychic Types so Sacred Sword is definitively not the thing that they should worry about. Edited May 5, 2023 by caioxlive13 Link to comment
dithyrambique Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 8 hours ago, kiwi said: porygon is not played bold but lets say it does u would have only 1 counter for dnite and in the teams u dont run porygon u will have to sack 1 mon each turn that it comes in u dont really know what moveset infernape runs u can only be certain of it running cc fire coverage hp ice which leaves room for either grass knot/stone edge to hit either chande or jelli so u cant say either is a counter to infernape because they cant reliable do so they are called checks NP hydre beats all the checks u listed for it bar mienshao which u can run acrobatics(not saying this is good) to ohko or even superpower to 2hko making hydreigon a pokemon with no counters either mixed mence can pretty much 2hko everything besides chansey life orb loom 2hkos amoongus with zen headbutt and after rocks cc+zh is a roll to ohko altho its very unlikely toxicroak/amongus both get 2hkod by crunch reuniclus can carry thunder to deal with spiritomb but it cant beat sableye because of prankster if u want a decent check to deal with gallade u can try bulky mence which is faster than adamant and lives +1 lo psycho cut but u have to be careful of ice punch just like every other mon that has a movetool to deal with all its checks rendering it uncounterable Bold has nearly 30% usage and is the second most popular nature. In any case, Mixed Dnite can be gradually worn down by rocks, effective pivoting and spdef Gliscor; same for Mence, but even more so cuz it has a worse physical movepool. Dnite is scary, but doable. Infernape's checks have already been dealt with (Slowbro, Jellicent, Chandelure, spdef Garchomp, Mandibuzz, etc.). Also scary, but doable. Hydrei we have seen has defensive switches, the easiest as you said being AV Shao which can just turn and bring in something to force it out. Crawdaunt 2kos Amoonguss with Crunch, yes. Have you heard of pivoting? Plus, 66% of Amoonguss are running helmet so each time you do bring it in on Crunch it's taking chip. If Reuniclus runs coverage like Thunder then it's gonna leave itself vulnerable to Band Ttar, Scizor, Weavile, etc. Anything with taunt like Mandibuzz just shuts it down most times anyway. Breloom if using Orb Zen + CC as per your example has to drop SD or Spore or Rock Tomb or Mach Punch (lol?) so can be dealt with by any number of flying types, Volcarona, Gliscor, Espeon, Impish Chomp, etc. Bulky Mence is not faster than Adamant Gallade, you'd need 100 speed if running Bold. Gallade is mostly running Jolly (56%) anyway, so Bold would have to be 204 speed; Timid 100 with 156 presumably going into defence. It could work but you are still gonna be taking minimum 62% of your hp (-1 252 Atk Life Orb Sharpness Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 156 Def Salamence: 75-91 (37.1 - 45%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock) to come in on -1 Psycho Cut if rocks are up (and presumably you'd be using Sala to defog so you'd possibly be using 2 turns to roost/defog), which can be problematic in cases where your opponent doesn't give you the time to defog in that scenario cuz you will slowly lose to Gallade with rocks and psycho cut outdamaging your 50% recovery Link to comment
pachima Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 9 hours ago, ArtOfKilling said: P2 Bold beats mixed Dnite if it's max hp, whether you tell me it comes on rocks and draco meteor then thats a different case. 92 Atk Life Orb Dragonite Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 86-101 (44.7 - 52.6%) 252+ SpA Life Orb Dragonite Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 94-110 (48.9 - 57.2%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO Since you mentioned infernape then i'll reply to mixed infernape, Unless you are talking about Grass Knot set which then gets completely walled by Chandelure. CB Ape gets destroyed by Impish Rocky Garchomp 116 Atk Life Orb Infernape Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 78-94 (37.6 - 45.4%) -- 52% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery You have Calm Unaware clef for nasty plot Hydreigon Milotic,Empoleon for Taunt Hydreigon AV Mienshao and Tyranitar for Hydreigon Aswell. 1- I am very confused. Why are you claiming Bold p2 counters dnite, but then proceed to share a calc where it proves it does not? 2- CB ape isn't destroyed by Impish Garchomp. In fact, it has a very high chance of just 2hko through it whout chomp ever being able to hit back 3- All of those lose for Superpower Taunt Hydreigon, which is a valid set, except Mienshao, which is irrelevant because it is in the tier for a relatively short time, meaning it didn't exist in a time where Hydreigon still had access to the same wallbreaking capabilities without being deemed uber worthy. Quinn010 1 Link to comment
gbwead Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, kiwi said: infernape, hydreigon, dnite, mence, reuniclus, breloom now with cc, crawdaunt and more that i cant remember, and before u say jellicent is a counter to infernape check learnsets and no pory doesnt beat mixed dnite Infernape suffers seriously from 4MSS, from poor bulk and from its stat distribution. Sure it may not have 1 perfect counter, but each Infernape set will beat a very limited amount of mons. Each set of Gallade covers the vast majority of our metagame. Hydreigon gets pretty much countered by AV Mienshao. I have seen maybe 2 acrobatics Hydreigon in the past 6 month and one of those was in a PSL duel. Physical Hydreigon would not be a common battle condition. Dragonite. I don't see the issue. P2 stops nearly all sets, but even if Dnite has the perfect set to have a small chance to beat P2, P2 will still gain access to multiscale when switching on it anyways. Special wall Hippo has also been great against Dnite in the past and I'm sure Gliscor is probably pretty decent against it as well. Breloom gaining acess to CC doesn't change anything in regard to what can counter it and what can't. The big change for the previous counters is gaining access to Zen Headbutt and Aerial Ace which mean giving a hard time to Weezing and Amoongus. However, Breloom suffers also from 4MSS and can't have perfect coverage all at once. Gallade doesn't have that problem. Crawdaunt is fine in OU, but it will struggle against so many things like Toxicroak, Dnite, Amoongus, etc. It's just so far from comparable to Gallade. Edited May 5, 2023 by gbwead ArtOfKilling, JohntheJester and dithyrambique 3 Link to comment
Ajbramberg Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 I swear ya'll out here living in fantasy land. You run these number like a poke is battling a peice of wood. Just because a poke can 2hko something doesnt mean it will in an actual battle, people switch out very often and hazards are common especially since yall calculating dmg with life orb sets which means gallade will be outsped by most pokes in tier and it has no priorities. Its choice locked usually so if i send out gallade and you send out lets say tyranitar, all you need to do is swap to a cofagrigus and its now unabable to hit and if you have hazards now it takes chip, if its life orb its now mummied and you can willowisp it and it will be unable to do barely any damage. Then you can pain split away you can do the same with a wheezing, you sit here and calculate dmh gallade can do without factoring in speeds or what the other poke has to answer gallade. In that case gallade should have been banned long ago because when it holds a choice band it 2hkos all the same mons, sure garchomp outspeeds and 2hkos gallade but gallade can 2hko gallade with a banded ice punch, see how that doesnt make sense since it doesnt outspeed? Yall either jut intentionally being dishonest or **respectfully** you have little pvp experience (which a few of you have actually admitted) in which case you have no business trying to dictate pvp policy for people who actually do. I dont shunt so if theres a new rule about shunting i dont input, yall should do the same here because its actually crazy to see somebody post paragraphs advocating a ban and then put "i dont really pvp or spectate much" at the end of it. razimove, Queza and JohntheJester 3 Link to comment
gbwead Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Ajbramberg said: I swear ya'll out here living in fantasy land. You run these number like a poke is battling a peice of wood. Just because a poke can 2hko something doesnt mean it will in an actual battle, people switch out very often and hazards are common especially since yall calculating dmg with life orb sets which means gallade will be outsped by most pokes in tier and it has no priorities. Its choice locked usually so if i send out gallade and you send out lets say tyranitar, all you need to do is swap to a cofagrigus and its now unabable to hit and if you have hazards now it takes chip, if its life orb its now mummied and you can willowisp it and it will be unable to do barely any damage. Then you can pain split away you can do the same with a wheezing, you sit here and calculate dmh gallade can do without factoring in speeds or what the other poke has to answer gallade. In that case gallade should have been banned long ago because when it holds a choice band it 2hkos all the same mons, sure garchomp outspeeds and 2hkos gallade but gallade can 2hko gallade with a banded ice punch, see how that doesnt make sense since it doesnt outspeed? Yall either jut intentionally being dishonest or **respectfully** you have little pvp experience (which a few of you have actually admitted) in which case you have no business trying to dictate pvp policy for people who actually do. I dont shunt so if theres a new rule about shunting i dont input, yall should do the same here because its actually crazy to see somebody post paragraphs advocating a ban and then put "i dont really pvp or spectate much" at the end of it. The most common Gallade set is Life Orb: If you lead Ttar and I lead Gallade, you can't freely switch on Cofagrigus or Weezing. That's a prediction (hoping I clikc Sacred Sword on Ttar as you switch out) because if I do SD as you switch out, Cofagrigus will get OHKO. This means, no WoW, no Pain Split, none of that. Your scenario only applies if your opponent does exactly what you want him/her to do. You don't get to choose when your opponent's mon is choice locked and when it isn't. Edited May 5, 2023 by gbwead RysPicz and JohntheJester 2 Link to comment
Ajbramberg Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, gbwead said: The most common Gallade set is Life Orb: If you lead Ttar and I lead Gallade, you can't freely switch on Cofagrigus or Weezing. That's a prediction (hoping I clikc Sacred Sword on Ttar as you switch out) because if I do SD as you switch out, Cofagrigus will get OHKO. This means, no WoW, no Pain Split, none of that. Your scenario only applies if your opponent does exactly what you want him/her to do. You don't get to choose when your opponent's mon is choice locked and when it isn't. This is exactly what im talking about , the only reason life orb is popular is 1) because people have been using gallade life orb before sharp and 2)life orb is cheaper. Its also barely even more popular and now youre bringing up the outrageous option of swords dance? Just earlier icepunch/ss/pyscut/leafblade was the set so is it running 5 moves now? Youre just being dishonest and moving goalposts around plus Im talking about scarf v cof/weezing what does swords dance have to do with anything? Life orb can just be countered by laying rocks and hitting with any number of common ou mons that have prio and or outspeed. You cant quote life orb numbers and then act like its gonna outspeed a garchomp because it wont. The gallade youre arguing against must be running scarf, orb and 5 moves while not experiencing any drawbacks. Even if gallade kills a wall its life orb has drained health and its ohkod by everything now. so im just gonna assume your trolling man. Edited May 5, 2023 by Ajbramberg Link to comment
gbwead Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 1 minute ago, Ajbramberg said: This is exactly what im talking about , the only reason life orb is popular is 1) because people have been using gallade life orb before sharp amd 2)life orb is cheaper. Its also barely even more popular and now youre bringinging up the outrageous option of swords dance? Just earlier icepunch/ss/pyscut/leafblade was the set so is it running 5 moves now? Youre just being dishonest and moving goalposts around plus Im talking about scarf v cof/weezing what does swords dance have to do with anything? Life orb can just be countered by laying rocks and hitting with any number of common ou mons that have prio and or outspeed. You cant quote life orb numbers and then act like its gonna outspeed a garchomp because it wont. The gallade youre arguing against must be running scarf, orb and 5 moves while not experiencing any drawbacks. Even if gallade kills a wall its life orb has drained health and its ohkod by everything now. so im just gonna assume your trolling man. SD / Sacred Sword / Psycho Cut / Night Slash is the most common I have seen. Like I said, you don't get to choose when your opponent is choice locked and when it isn't. Your example applies only for when Gallade is choice locked, but that's out of your control. If you are running a Cofagrigus + Ttar in the same team, your team isn't really fast so far. If you look at Cofagrigus' most common allies you will see that there are several that get outsped by Gallade: My point here is that even if SD Gallade can be revenge killed, there is still other opportunities for Gallade to make more kills if it gets on the field in front of Chansey, Conkeldurr, etc. I don't know what's the deal with your attitude, but not every single person that disagrees with you is dishonest or trolling. RysPicz 1 Link to comment
Imperial Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Ajbramberg said: No dude nobody is using that set. Im not arguing with you man ive posed this question to global 5 times now and nobody has advocated for a ban they have all said the same things as me. Im not assuming your dishonest you ARE dishonest. You post numbers for 1 thing then argue a whole other situation. Im feeling like its no coincidence that the same 4 people who are constantly laugh reacting to my posts are all hearting and upvoting eachothers as well as all having anime profile pics and not sharing theyre user so yeah man youre either a troll or a little kid. 4 people think gallade should be banned and none of you have given any kind of solid argument. With all due respect, assuming the people you asked are like this person in the recent Doubles tournament, I don't think Global chat is a fair sample to base your judgement on: Edited May 5, 2023 by Imperial RysPicz 1 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 39 minutes ago, Imperial said: With all due respect, assuming the people you asked are like this person in the recent Doubles tournament, I don't think Global chat is a fair sample to base your judgement on: Hey I won a doubles tournament with Venu+Zam combo. Shout out @PinkWings #masters RysPicz, Onraider and Imperial 2 1 Link to comment
Merckis Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 (edited) Been playing OU for a long time don't know OP but I'm sorry to say the first post sounds heavily biased. All of these calculations are quite meaningless, how do you end up clicking Psycho Cut vs Weezing for example, you predict the switch in? You have a life orb set so everything is outspeeding you but that's not a problem? Put the calculations for Conkeldurr using Facade & you'll have similar results, hell, use Cranidos Choice Band Head Smash at this point. Way too early to tell. Gallade feels weak to me at the moment. Very one dimensional, unlike Garchomp or Rotom Wash. How can such a one dimensional and frail and slow Pokemon be a menace Edited May 5, 2023 by Merckis Ajbramberg and JohntheJester 1 1 Link to comment
Scootter Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ajbramberg said: gallade will be outsped by most pokes in tier and it has no priorities. But gallade has shadow sneak.... 1 hour ago, Ajbramberg said: No dude nobody is using that set. Im not arguing with you man ive posed this question to global 5 times now and nobody has advocated for a ban they have all said the same things as me. you know what sets people are using before the battle starts? let me know how. Also, global isn't a great indicator. 1 hour ago, Ajbramberg said: Im feeling like its no coincidence that the same 4 people who are constantly laugh reacting to my posts are all hearting and upvoting eachothers as well as all having anime profile pics and not sharing theyre user so yeah man youre either a troll or a little kid. 4 people think gallade should be banned and none of you have given any kind of solid argument. Didn't you make your forum account yesterday? Kinda odd if you ask me that you're calling reputable players who have won tournaments "trolls". Not to mention there have been plenty of arguments to show why Gallade can be problematic, you just refuse to listen. Edited May 5, 2023 by Scootter Link to comment
Zokuru Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 Would it be possible to have a real discussion without people who have not clue of what they are talking about, or obvious trolls who made an account yesterday? I believe this is an interesting topic and it needs educated discussion, not lines and lines of bullshit. Ziiiiio, dithyrambique, RysPicz and 9 others 8 1 2 1 Link to comment
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