GMjoshua Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 (edited) PokeMMO Types Tierlist Offensively Interaction(best off 10 types) Weakness(best 10 off types) Total Resistances(all types) Type (x2,x1,x1/2, x0) W (x2,x1,x1/2,x0) R (x0,x1/2,x1,x2) (colors only for best 10 off types) Tier S (Mandatory to build) Dragon (1,15,1,0) x2 dragon x1/2 steel W(2,6,2,0) R(0,4,11,2) (The best type offensively -Interesting, but limited movepool: draco meteor,dragon dance, dragon claw, dragon pulse, dragon tail, outrage -Water, fire and electric coverage) Water (3,11,3,0) x2 earth, rock and fire x1/2 dragon and water W(0,7,3,0) R(0,4,11,2) (Perfect off-tank balance -Interesting, but limited movepool: scald, hydro pump,aqua jet, waterfall, water spout, surf, muddy water -weather control -Ice coverage) Steel (2,12,3,0) x2 ice and rock x1/2 water, steel and fire W(1,3,4,0) R(1,11,2,3) (The best type defensively -Interesting, but too limited movepool: meteor mash, bullet punch, gyro ball, iron defense -Rain abuser: scizor -Inmunity to poisong) Tier A(Win condition generators) Earth (5,9,2,1) x2 steel, rock and fire x0 flying W(1,8,1,0) R(1,2,11,3) (Insane offensively -Really limited movepool:Earthquake, earth power -Really limited movepool -Nice strategically: Voltage Blocker -Sand sweeper -Rock coverage) Flying (3,11,3,0) x2 fighting x1/2 steel and rock W(1,7,1,1) R(1,3,10,3) (Good movepool:Tailwind, defog,Roost,Hurricane, Brave Bird, Air slash, acrobatics, feather dance -Nice strategically: EQ immunity -Inmmunity to spikes) Fighting (4,8,4,1) x2steel,ice, rock and dark x1/2 flying W(1,9,0,0) R(0,2,13,2) (Insane offensively -Interesting, but limited movepool: Close Combat, mach punch, aura sphere, vacuum wave, super power, bulk up -Rock coverage) Dark (2,12,3,0) x1/2 steel and dark W(1,8,1,0) R(1,2,12,2) (Good movepool: nasty plot, dark pulse, snarl, sucker punch, taunt, crunch, foul play, swticheroo -Prankster Immunity) Tier B (Complements) Electric (2,11,3,1) x2 Water and flying x1/2 dragon, x0 earth W(1,7,2,0) R(0,3,13,1) (Interesting, but limited movepool: thunderbolt, discharge, thunder wave, electroweb -Nice strategically: volt switch, Lightning rod -Rain abuser -Immunity to paralysis) Grass (3,7,7,0) x2 Earth, water and rock x1/2 Dragon, flying and fire W(3,5,2,0) R(0,4,8,5) (Interesintg, but limited movepool: Spore, Gigadrain, Leafstorm, leech seed, Wood hammer, Solar Beam, Worry Seed -Nice strategically:Spore and Rage Powder immunity -Weather abuser:Ferrothorn, Ludicolo, Venusaur) Psychic (2,12,2,1) x2 fighting x1/2 steel x0 dark W(1,8,1,0) R(0,2,12,3) (Good movepool: psychic, reflect, lightscreen, Trick room, Trick, calm mind, ally switch, Zen headbutt, teleport, agility, hypnosis) Tier C(Bad types, with some exceptions) Fire (4,9,4,0) x2 steel and ice x1/2 dragon , water and rock W(3,5,2,0) R(0,5,9,3) (Interesting, but limited movepool: flamethrower, heat wave, flare blitz, overheat, will o wisp, eruption -Weather control -Immunity to burn) Normal (0,14,2,1) x1/2 Steel and Rock W(1,9,0,0) R(1,15,1,0) (Perfect movepool: extreme speed, recover, protect, substitute, hyper voice, belly drum, yawn, follow me, after you, endeavor, fake out, explosion, heal bell, baton pass, focus energy, rapid spin, etc) Ghost (2,12,2,1) x1/2 steel and dark W(1,8,0,1) R(2,2,11,2) (Nice strategically: immunity to fake out and fighting attacks -Status coverage: toxic, will o wisp, trick room, curse -Really Bad movepool) Poison (1,11,4,1) x1/2 earth x0 steel W(1,8,1,0) R(0,4,11,2) (Bad offensly -Interesting defensively -Bad movepool: toxic, toxic spikes, clear smog, Sludge bomb, sludge wave -Immunity to poison, also toxic spikes cleaner) Tier D (The worst, only use if you need some of these specific pokemons: tyranitar, scizor, volcarona, mamoswine, heracross, weavile, Cloyster, Gigalith and abomasnow :D) Rock (4,10,3,0) x2 ice, flying and fire x1/2 earth, fighting and steel W(4,4,2,0) R(0,4,8,5) (-Limited and risky movepool: stealth Rock, rock slide, stone edge, wide guard -weather control -Interesting offensively , but a trash defensively) Ice (4,9,4,0) x2 dragon and earth x1/2 ice, water,steel and fire W(4,6,0,0) R(0,1,12,4) (-Interesting offensively, but a trash defensively -Interesting, but limited movepool: Ice beam, Blizzard, ice shard, Icy wind, haze -weather control) Bug (3,10,4,0) x2 Dark x1/2 steel, rock and fire W(3,5,2,0) R(0,3,11,3) (Worse offensively and defensively -Interesting, but limited movepool: U-turn, Quiver dance, Radge powder, stoicism) Disclaimer: The process of making this list was very rigorous, below I will explain the steps I followed. 1._I made a list of the types ordered by their offensive potential ( Like Dragon, Earth, Ice, fire, rock, water, steel, etc). For this I created a mathematical function called "typing" that uses the following parameters: Type( x2 effectiveness, x1 effectiveness, x1/2 effectivenesss, x0 efectiveness) Extended Form o T(x,y,z,i) Algebraic Form 2._ Then I made a List about 10 best offensively types (over the good ratio: x+y≥12 and other parameters like If x<3, y+z≤3) Tier S, Tier A and Tier B 3._I just took into account how many guys it was super effective on. That is, the priority of the parameters was: x, then x+y, then y, then z, then z+i and at the end i . I remember the first list was similar to Dragon, Earth, Ice, Fire, Fighting, Rock, Water,Flying, Steel, Dark. 3._ Then I reordered that list based on the types that were super effective against Tier S and Tier A, the process was long because the list changed over and over again until it reached an unalterable Balance (U also can use Excel) 4._Then I added another function that indicated the resistances of all types towards those first 10 types. And I ordered the list obtained by the permutation according to the parameters of this "defensive" list, only some types moved between their own tier and only some went up or down to an adjacent tier. 5._ Then I added the first Tier C types to the list and continue swapping based on super effectiveness towards the 10 best types on the first list (the most offensive in the game) and the list of weaknesses towards those same 10 types. The list reached a balance again. 6._Then I created another extra function (the last one) where the parameters were the resistances towards all the other types and based on that list I added the types of the first Tier D 7._Then it was just a matter of swapping a couple of times (minimal changes, only 1 or 2 interesting at this point) and I would have a list based purely on total effectiveness, total resistances, and resistances to the best offensive types. 8._Finally consider all other competitive criteria such as movepool, related strategies, coverages of other types that come "by default" in particular types, etc. The list began to change, but the changes were more within each Tier, such as "plant and electric type change places", but they remained within the same category, only in rare cases did a type go down or up in rank, as in the case of the type poison Tier D to Tier C and the case of the Plant type Tier C to Tier B Thanks for Watch! 😄 Edited April 11 by GMjoshua IanP, SuperBXdanielo, LeJovi and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment
caioxlive13 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 Just to fix something, bug is not the worst type defensively, it's actually one of the best. Sure, it has some weakness but they have resistances and the resistances are actually good. Resisting to Psychic, Fight and Ground is excellent. The problem is offensively, since Bug doesn't had the presence offensivelly it had defensively. The only thing Bug has are the 2 best moves in Pokémon history, Sticky Web(Best tool for any offensive team since having advantage on a speed dispute is always good) and U-turn(Literally an Uncontested Pivot, unlike any other pivoting move this cannot be prevented, just punished.), and the first doesn't even exist there. Johnwaynee 1 Link to comment
LeJovi Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 4 hours ago, caioxlive13 said: Just to fix something, bug is not the worst type defensively, it's actually one of the best. Sure, it has some weakness but they have resistances and the resistances are actually good. Resisting to Psychic, Fight and Ground is excellent. The problem is offensively, since Bug doesn't had the presence offensivelly it had defensively. The only thing Bug has are the 2 best moves in Pokémon history, Sticky Web(Best tool for any offensive team since having advantage on a speed dispute is always good) and U-turn(Literally an Uncontested Pivot, unlike any other pivoting move this cannot be prevented, just punished.), and the first doesn't even exist there. bug doesn't resist psychic Axelgor and IanP 2 Link to comment
FlacuSkye Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 1 hour ago, LeJovi said: bug doesn't resist psychic scizor does... so it has to... TohnR and LeJovi 2 Link to comment
Zokuru Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 6 hours ago, caioxlive13 said: Just to fix something, bug is not the worst type defensively, it's actually one of the best. Sure, it has some weakness but they have resistances and the resistances are actually good. Resisting to Psychic, Fight and Ground is excellent. The problem is offensively, since Bug doesn't had the presence offensivelly it had defensively. The only thing Bug has are the 2 best moves in Pokémon history, Sticky Web(Best tool for any offensive team since having advantage on a speed dispute is always good) and U-turn(Literally an Uncontested Pivot, unlike any other pivoting move this cannot be prevented, just punished.), and the first doesn't even exist there. Bug doesnt resist psychic, sticky web is far from being among the best moves and Uturn can be prevented, in fact, there's multiple ways to do that ( Eject Button, Shedinja). Please stop spouting nonsense when you have no clue what you are talking about. LeZenor, Doctor, IanP and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment
caioxlive13 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 (edited) 2 hours ago, Zokuru said: Bug doesnt resist psychic, sticky web is far from being among the best moves and Uturn can be prevented, in fact, there's multiple ways to do that ( Eject Button, Shedinja). Please stop spouting nonsense when you have no clue what you are talking about. Shedinja has 0% usage(not literally 0 usage but last time checked has less than 1%) and Eject Button is a one time use. While every other way of pivoting has 1 reliable answer to prevent it. And when i say prevent is not like: Using chip dmg to make people think on switching, and yes stop the move as a whole from being used(Ex: Volt Switch is prevented by Volt Absorb and Grounds, Teleport/Baton Pass by Taunt). Remember what i sayed: U-turn can only be Punished. About resistances, I did recall of a good resistance Bug Has, not recalling if was Psychic or Dark. Edited April 11 by caioxlive13 Link to comment
LeJovi Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 41 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said: Shedinja has 0% usage(not literally 0 usage but last time checked has less than 1%) and Eject Button is a one time use. While every other way of pivoting has 1 reliable answer to prevent it. And when i say prevent is not like: Using chip dmg to make people think on switching, and yes stop the move as a whole from being used(Ex: Volt Switch is prevented by Volt Absorb and Grounds, Teleport/Baton Pass by Taunt). Remember what i sayed: U-turn can only be Punished. About resistances, I did recall of a good resistance Bug Has, not recalling if was Psychic or Dark. Yeah bug still doesn’t resist any of those. Just stop. Link to comment
LifeStyleNORE Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 1 hour ago, caioxlive13 said: Shedinja has 0% usage(not literally 0 usage but last time checked has less than 1%) and Eject Button is a one time use. While every other way of pivoting has 1 reliable answer to prevent it. And when i say prevent is not like: Using chip dmg to make people think on switching, and yes stop the move as a whole from being used(Ex: Volt Switch is prevented by Volt Absorb and Grounds, Teleport/Baton Pass by Taunt). Remember what i sayed: U-turn can only be Punished. About resistances, I did recall of a good resistance Bug Has, not recalling if was Psychic or Dark. https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/types/bug/ please use this and stop embarrassing yourself Link to comment
LunarEdge Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 2 hours ago, caioxlive13 said: Shedinja has 0% usage(not literally 0 usage but last time checked has less than 1%) and Eject Button is a one time use. While every other way of pivoting has 1 reliable answer to prevent it. And when i say prevent is not like: Using chip dmg to make people think on switching, and yes stop the move as a whole from being used(Ex: Volt Switch is prevented by Volt Absorb and Grounds, Teleport/Baton Pass by Taunt). Remember what i sayed: U-turn can only be Punished. About resistances, I did recall of a good resistance Bug Has, not recalling if was Psychic or Dark. except for the bug resistances which it only resists plant, fighting and ground you have a point of bug having very good moves, quiver dance, u-turn, bug buzz that ignores substitute, first impression on later gens being a priority bug type fake out of some sort and of course sticky web that is a very good move for teams with lower speed sweepers, I don't get why you getting bullied for making a mistake about a resist when everything else you said is valid, it's like these people that invalidate your argument because of a spelling error XD. SuperBXdanielo 1 Link to comment
GMjoshua Posted April 12 Author Share Posted April 12 (edited) 1 hour ago, LunarEdge said: except for the bug resistances which it only resists plant, fighting and ground you have a point of bug having very good moves, quiver dance, u-turn, bug buzz that ignores substitute, first impression on later gens being a priority bug type fake out of some sort and of course sticky web that is a very good move for teams with lower speed sweepers, I don't get why you getting bullied for making a mistake about a resist when everything else you said is valid, it's like these people that invalidate your argument because of a spelling error XD. Because I explained the same, read the post again please 😄 I said "Bug has interesting movepool: U-turn, quiver dance, ragde powder, stoicism"(Then U are talking about future movepool like gen 6, gen7). Check the table, grass tanks earth and water type, has the same weaknesss of bug type, but is better offensivaly an defensively, has better moves: spore, gigadrain, leef seed, and grass type is good in teambuilding like grass/fure/water core or weather strategy: in sun or rain (abomasnow in snow also). So Grass has the same weaknesss(really similar) of bug type, a better movepool, better resistances, better ofense (x2 water and earth type) , and has more arguments for be a Tier B type. ¿What are the arguments for say Bug is not the worst type in PokeMMO? Is not "bulling" for him, we're helping him to be a better person. If u don't "believe me" only check the comments, people only are saying him "just stop", "please stop" ," is embarrasing". Edited April 12 by GMjoshua Link to comment
LunarEdge Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 12 minutes ago, GMjoshua said: Because I explained the same, read the post again please 😄 I said "Bug has interesting movepool: U-turn, quiver dance, ragde powder, stoicism"(Then U are talking about future movepool like gen 6, gen7). Check the table, grass tanks earth and water type, has the same weaknesss of bug type, but is better offensivaly an defensively, has better moves: spore, gigadrain, leef seed, and grass type is good in teambuilding like grass/fure/water core or weather strategy: in sun or rain (abomasnow in snow also). So Grass has the same weaknesss(really similar) of bug type, a better movepool, better resistances, better ofense (x2 water and earth type) , and has more arguments for be a Tier B type. ¿What are the arguments for say Bug is not the worst type in PokeMMO? Is not "bulling" for him, we're helping him to be a better person. I'm not arguing about the tier that bug is placed on, bug is trash in here, I was replying caioxlive13 saying that his point where not that far from true as a whole and other people where basically shaming him because he made a mistake on the bug type resistances saying that he should stop embarrassing himself and whatnot, but that's on me because I thought that comment was distasteful, and yes, I talked about moves of future gens, sorry for that I guess. Link to comment
caioxlive13 Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 3 hours ago, LunarEdge said: except for the bug resistances which it only resists plant, fighting and ground you have a point of bug having very good moves, quiver dance, u-turn, bug buzz that ignores substitute, first impression on later gens being a priority bug type fake out of some sort and of course sticky web that is a very good move for teams with lower speed sweepers, I don't get why you getting bullied for making a mistake about a resist when everything else you said is valid, it's like these people that invalidate your argument because of a spelling error XD. Man, that happens always with me, i can write an essay of 85 lines, they will search and quote only what they found to blame me, even if it's just one of the 85 lines. If they don't found anything then they won't answer. (Did you see the argument about Wish TP i did on April Movement thread? Since there was NOTHING they founded to blame me they just straight shut up.) About the moves i legit forgot about QD but there didn't change the situation. Bug is literally the Opposite of Ice, is good defensively but bad offensively(Ice is good Offensively and Terrible Defensively) , just have like 5 good moves to any offense and that's it. Link to comment
LeZenor Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 (edited) 9 hours ago, caioxlive13 said: Man, that happens always with me, i can write an essay of 85 lines, they will search and quote only what they found to blame me, even if it's just one of the 85 lines. If they don't found anything then they won't answer. (Did you see the argument about Wish TP i did on April Movement thread? Since there was NOTHING they founded to blame me they just straight shut up.) About the moves i legit forgot about QD but there didn't change the situation. Bug is literally the Opposite of Ice, is good defensively but bad offensively(Ice is good Offensively and Terrible Defensively) , just have like 5 good moves to any offense and that's it. When you share your opinion on public forums, you have to expect that people will disagree with you, that’s just how it is on the internet man. You can’t just expect people to agree with you every single time you share your thoughts on a topic. And if people see a flaw in a specific part of your argument (which they did), they will point it out. I don’t particularly agree on the way they did but regardless, you are entitled to your opinion and so are they and nothing compels them to answer all of the 84 other lines of your post. Maybe they agree with the rest or maybe they don’t or maybe they just don’t bother to reply to everything in any of your post. Nobody is out to get you Bug-type resisting to Psychic-type was part of your argument. You were proven wrong. That’s it Edited April 12 by LeZenor R34ct1on, Matthzinxl, Johnwaynee and 3 others 6 Link to comment
Zokuru Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 5 hours ago, caioxlive13 said: Man, that happens always with me, i can write an essay of 85 lines Stop writing nonsense and spend your time learning the game instead. LeJovi and Matthzinxl 2 Link to comment
Imperial Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 9 hours ago, caioxlive13 said: Man, that happens always with me, i can write an essay of 85 lines, they will search and quote only what they found to blame me, even if it's just one of the 85 lines. If they don't found anything then they won't answer. (Did you see the argument about Wish TP i did on April Movement thread? Since there was NOTHING they founded to blame me they just straight shut up.) About the moves i legit forgot about QD but there didn't change the situation. Bug is literally the Opposite of Ice, is good defensively but bad offensively(Ice is good Offensively and Terrible Defensively) , just have like 5 good moves to any offense and that's it. I think the issue is that you've built a negative reputation for yourself where you only want to be heard, ignoring whatever comments and feedback other people have directly responded to you in the past, derailing threads and continuously quoting people (even when requested to stop), so you can't really complain when people do the same to you and automatically disregard points you make. The main tier I've seen you play is OU and sometimes NU, yet you make points on subjects related to UU. It's probably best to do your research, look at statistics in game and actively get involved in those tiers instead of just playing hypothetical scenarios. Theorycrafting can only get you so far... Gruul, R34ct1on, EricRasp and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment
caioxlive13 Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 (edited) 10 hours ago, LeZenor said: When you share your opinion on public forums, you have to expect that people will disagree with you, that’s just how it is on the internet man. You can’t just expect people to agree with you every single time you share your thoughts on a topic. And if people see a flaw in a specific part of your argument (which they did), they will point it out. I don’t particularly agree on the way they did but regardless, you are entitled to your opinion and so are they and nothing compels them to answer all of the 84 other lines of your post. Maybe they agree with the rest or maybe they don’t or maybe they just don’t bother to reply to everything in any of your post. Nobody is out to get you Bug-type resisting to Psychic-type was part of your argument. You were proven wrong. That’s it Ik people will disagree, but the problem is only when they try to disagree and if they can't disagree they straight up ignore instead of doing good feedback(Pointing out small mistakes like @LunarEdge did, not bulllying or straight up invalidating the whole argument.) or agreeing with the argument to give him credibility. And when i refuse some critics it's pretty obvious the reasons. Doing critics like: "Good argument but pointing out that X information is wrong because of Y, Z and/or A factors" is how people should correct others, and not do like: "X info is wrong, shut up your imbecile and play the game." like people commonly does. (Pointing Directly onto Zokuru's answer.) The problem wasn't and never will be an argument, and yes how people reply to the argument of others that doesn't agree with them. About the resistances i indeed recorded of a good one as i pointed out. The problem is i wasn't recalling which one and assumed to be psychic because Bug attacks beats psychic. Wasn't remembering the third one was Grass because i didn't even consider Grass an Excellent type like the Other two(Fight and Ground) Edited April 12 by caioxlive13 LunarEdge 1 Link to comment
RysPicz Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 Caio seriously, don't dig that grave of yours any deeper, just stop PoseidonWrath, GMjoshua, Shadow and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment
EricRasp Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 Everyone would be happy if they'd just block him over here like I did several years ago. He'd just be talking with himself. 😄 RysPicz and Gruul 2 Link to comment
TohnR Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 S Tier is Dragon/Water/Steel A Tier is Ghost/Fighting/Ground/Electric/Flying B Tier is Grass/Fire/Ice/Dark/Normal/Poison C Tier is Bug/Psychic/Rock Something like that, took 30s, you put too much thoughts into it Link to comment
razimove Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 my question is, how is this competitive relevant and what should anyone retain from this list? And why are we entertaining this? Link to comment
LunarEdge Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 4 hours ago, razimove said: my question is, how is this competitive relevant and what should anyone retain from this list? And why are we entertaining this? Well, to new players it could be useful, not so much for players with more experience I guess, as everything is kind of evident when you'd played Pokemon for a while, so for new player trying to make a team this could be a useful resource. I encourage teambuilding and not just for example: best HO team OU and this tier even gives reasons for why the OP (original poster) believes every type is in each tier. Link to comment
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