OU Tier Discussion Request Thread

[gbwead]

Imo, Teleport is fine when not used in conjonction with healing mechanics. If using Teleport meant Slowbro's Regenerator doesn't proc or Wish from Chansey doesn't work, Teleport becomes completly fine. I disagree with the idea of a complex ban. It's messy when new features get added to the game, confusing for new players and setting a bad precedent for future tiering decisions. Imo, I would rather keep Teleport the way it is now than have to deal with a complex ban. I would also be fine with reverting the move back to the way it used to be (useless move) or having some mechanic change with teleport where Heal Block is applied to your side of the field when using that move.

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by gbwead

[DoubleJ]

How to hurt stall even more 101

 

Great post highlighting a very impressive mechanic but not broken. Players have been able to manage Wish+Teleport for some time now, and chansey has many flaws that at times make it a liability. Mixed attackers feast, especially those mixed-Fighting types. And who knows, maybe Gallade will make its inevitable return and be good enough to see OU usage. 

[caioxlive13]

49 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

And who knows, maybe Gallade will make its inevitable return and be good enough to see OU usage. 

Tier council are 100% aware that removing sharpness would send it back to NU, are they?
Also:

49 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Mixed attackers feast, especially those mixed-Fighting types. 

What mixed fight-types we have, apart from Nape, that are on Over Used by usage?(Desconsidering, then, UUBL mons and below.)

Edited July 29, 2023 by caioxlive13

[KeldeoCrowned]

47 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

How to hurt stall even more 101

 

Great post highlighting a very impressive mechanic but not broken. Players have been able to manage Wish+Teleport for some time now, and chansey has many flaws that at times make it a liability. Mixed attackers feast, especially those mixed-Fighting types. And who knows, maybe Gallade will make its inevitable return and be good enough to see OU usage. 

Thanks for your answer, I assume that you're talking about Infernape, but this isn't one of best checks tbh, Chansey common teammates such as Rotom-Wash (46,70%) Gastrodon and Starmie deal with him easily, about gallade, idk if he would turn wish tp chansey bad or something, maybe even it would be a nice teammate for her because of momentum generation and steel types luring 
(Sorry for my bad english)

[DoubleJ]

Weather has new tools and I'm curious to hear early thoughts. I recognize that current weather setters outclass both Ninetales and Politoed, so are they going down to UU with usage or will we see teams with multiple weather setters?

[gbwead]

I think Politoed and Ninetales will drop down tbh. Suicune uber tho.

[caioxlive13]

52 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Weather has new tools and I'm curious to hear early thoughts. I recognize that current weather setters outclass both Ninetales and Politoed, so are they going down to UU with usage or will we see teams with multiple weather setters?

Sun in the past was very controversial on UU, for OU it's fine. Now UU has it back, with a nerf on weather setter of course bcause Ninetales is worse than torkoal.  Also the tier has Rain, so the question is: Can UU hold weather teams?

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by caioxlive13

[gbwead]

1 minute ago, caioxlive13 said:

Also the tier has Rain, so the question is: Can UU hold weather teams?

Stay tuned to find out!

[gbwead]

Suicune, as of right now, should be banned. Any more testing will just hurt our metagame. We don't have the proper tools to deal with this threat and the tools we do have are very underwhelming for the OU metagame.

[Imperial]

6 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Suicune, as of right now, should be banned. Any more testing will just hurt our metagame. We don't have the proper tools to deal with this threat and the tools we do have are very underwhelming for the OU metagame.

To be honest I was wondering why they decided to release Suicune before Raikou/Entei who are definitely more underwhelming than the former (Raikou > Entei > Suicune in that order). I've only seen it once in the Shiny Salamence tournament, but the only offensive pressure I could think of on the top of my head would be Assault Gear(?) Serperior and Gallade, but neither of those would want to risk switching into a potential Scald/Ice Beam especially once boosted from Calm Mind.

 

 

[gbwead]

9 minutes ago, Imperial said:

To be honest I was wondering why they decided to release Suicune before Raikou/Entei who are definitely more underwhelming than the former (Raikou > Entei > Suicune in that order). I've only seen it once in the Shiny Salamence tournament, but the only offensive pressure I could think of on the top of my head would be Assault Gear(?) Serperior and Gallade, but neither of those would want to risk switching into a potential Scald/Ice Beam especially once boosted from Calm Mind.

 

 

Serperior also loses vs sub/protect sets since pressure removes all Leaf Storm PP. On top of that, Sub spamming is great vs Leaf Storm potential misses. Ice Beam also screws with Serperior. I think the only answer we have is something like Careful Poison Heal Breloom and that's not great.

[Mkns1070]

9 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Serperior also loses vs sub/protect sets since pressure removes all Leaf Storm PP. On top of that, Sub spamming is great vs Leaf Storm potential misses. Ice Beam also screws with Serperior. I think the only answer we have is something like Careful Poison Heal Breloom and that's not great.

Why not use 2 stab serperior 

[LifeStyleNORE]

Thoughts on removing Calm Mind?

[gbwead]

Calm Mind is just one aspect of Suicune that makes it broken. Pressure is also central in making Suicune broken. Same with Scald. 

I'm assuming TC did not just release Suicune without a plan. Celebi, Keldeo, something must be on the way to deal with this threat. If TC is truly considering removing Calm Mind on Suicune already, I don't understand why they allowed Suicune to be OU in the first place.

[pachima]

56 minutes ago, gbwead said:

I'm assuming TC did not just release Suicune without a plan. 

lmao.

Either way, I agree. Our meta game is really not fit to handle Suicune at all. Most of the already very few and shaky answers rely on low pp moves, allowing Suicune to abuse side builds in order to pp stall all those.

 

It is also super impressive Suicune was the first of the dogs to be added, in a metagame that is already so many leagues below any similar meta with Suicune around when it comes to offensive presence.

[Quinn010]

2 hours ago, gbwead said:

Suicune, as of right now, should be banned. Any more testing will just hurt our metagame. We don't have the proper tools to deal with this threat and the tools we do have are very underwhelming for the OU metagame.

Have you tried mantine or psy up starmie?

[gbwead]

40 minutes ago, Quinn010 said:

Have you tried mantine or psy up starmie?

It wouldn't have enough pp unless it runs Splash.

[SweeTforU]

What's the point of asking for legendaries for ages if it's here for 2 days and you guys are already crying... In this rate there won't be any new legends in our metagame. Maybe at last suicune will be the key to stop all the gay stall that's been running around for a while now and open a door for other mons and newer strategies... maybe for once stop crying in the beginning and start adapting and thinking of new surprises noobs.

[caioxlive13]

1 hour ago, SweeTforU said:

What's the point of asking for legendaries for ages if it's here for 2 days and you guys are already crying... In this rate there won't be any new legends in our metagame. Maybe at last suicune will be the key to stop all the gay stall that's been running around for a while now and open a door for other mons and newer strategies... maybe for once stop crying in the beginning and start adapting and thinking of new surprises noobs.

I agree with SweeTforU. Also, Suicune has been present for only 2 days, obviously people will not see a single counter for it.
 

 

5 hours ago, Imperial said:

 I've only seen it once in the Shiny Salamence tournament, but the only offensive pressure I could think of on the top of my head would be Assault Gear(?) Serperior and Gallade.

AV Serperior? Free win to me.

[LifeStyleNORE]

2 hours ago, SweeTforU said:

What's the point of asking for legendaries for ages if it's here for 2 days and you guys are already crying... In this rate there won't be any new legends in our metagame. Maybe at last suicune will be the key to stop all the gay stall that's been running around for a while now and open a door for other mons and newer strategies... maybe for once stop crying in the beginning and start adapting and thinking of new surprises noobs.

I agree with this in some way, but I'd say atm Suicune invalidates more than just "gay stall". And honestly it should have been one of the few last legendaries to be added. 

[ArtOfKilling]

Everything requires testing and fair duration to judge its strength. Right now I believe players should start valuing Assault Vest more because it's an item from the future that didn't exist in Gen5, and is highly beneficial against Suicune. I'm pretty sure something much more worrying than Suicune might come to the OU meta, and that's what we might give the spotlight to.

[pachima]

6 hours ago, ArtOfKilling said:

Everything requires testing and fair duration to judge its strength. Right now I believe players should start valuing Assault Vest more because it's an item from the future that didn't exist in Gen5, and is highly beneficial against Suicune. I'm pretty sure something much more worrying than Suicune might come to the OU meta, and that's what we might give the spotlight to.

Which Assault vest users are viable in OU AND deal with Suicune overall?

 

Serperior loses to sub protect cune
Amoonguss loses to both sub protect and calm mind ice beam
Conkeldurr? But that absolutely needs tpunch with sheer force to even have a chance  (And honestly im not even sure that isn't pp stalled as well) and is chipped way too easily.

What else is there?

[Johnwaynee]

Maybe wait for anniversary before you try to advocate what to ban (after two frikkin days)

 

Same old, same old....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SweeTforU]

1 hour ago, pachima said:

Which Assault vest users are viable in OU AND deal with Suicune overall?

 

Serperior loses to sub protect cune
Amoonguss loses to both sub protect and calm mind ice beam
Conkeldurr? But that absolutely needs tpunch with sheer force to even have a chance  (And honestly im not even sure that isn't pp stalled as well) and is chipped way too easily.

What else is there?

How does serp loses to cune, AV serp runs giga+leaf

[KeldeoCrowned]

16 hours ago, gbwead said:

Calm Mind is just one aspect of Suicune that makes it broken. Pressure is also central in making Suicune broken. Same with Scald. 

I'm assuming TC did not just release Suicune without a plan. Celebi, Keldeo, something must be on the way to deal with this threat. If TC is truly considering removing Calm Mind on Suicune already, I don't understand why they allowed Suicune to be OU in the first place.

30 minutes ago, SweeTforU said:

 

Tbh, idt that suicune is so broken as people talk rn, it's very strong for current metagame, but we can't just do a quickban without testing just because someone said that it's broken, there are some checks as taunt Jellicent, Haze Mantine Tp+Bullet Seed breloom, NP Washtom, Cm raikou,W absorb  Seismitoad, yea, ik, some of these aren't common things in OU, but, in my opinion, suicune is strong af for OU, but not strong enough for a quickban, the impact of suicune in OU metagame isn't a predictable thing