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UU Tier Discussion Request Thread


Munya

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38 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

Please take pory2 back to OU where it belongs, I don't wanna make another long post about how it can switch in on half of the tier and then hit really fukn hard with hax attack/ coverage or w/e, all that has been said about it during previous discussion still applies

You dont like a tier where a mon that has over 25% usage has 57%+ winrate despite this number being dropped down due to mirror matches?

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1 hour ago, RysPicz said:

Please take pory2 back to OU where it belongs, I don't wanna make another long post about how it can switch in on half of the tier and then hit really fukn hard with hax attack/ coverage or w/e, all that has been said about it during previous discussion still applies

For sure I will! Can you give me a semi-comp one? I will use it in my team ūüôā

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1 hour ago, LeJovi said:

So I think these days have been enough already, P2 should not be in UU 

expected.

 

How about shaymin? Like, people claimed that this mon would be broken on UU. It is really broken or not?

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1 hour ago, caioxlive13 said:

expected.

 

How about shaymin? Like, people claimed that this mon would be broken on UU. It is really broken or not?

First things first. UU is broken. We have 3 Pokemon above 56% winrate. 2 of which above 20% usage. This is unprecedented outside of non-tiers, and should strike as an obvious flaw considering we both are counting mirror matches, dropping down the actual winrate, and that people were complaining PZ was broken when it was nowhere the combination of these 2 numbers.

I still think Shaymin is broken, but the tier is so fragmented in an unbalanced way that is completely nonsense to just discuss multiple things at once, and P2 just needs to go asap first.

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I agree with the above comments - I love the Pokemon but Porygon2 should be banned from the tier.

 

First off, this is a Pokemon that can make any teambuild look way better than it is, especially more offensive teams as it can sponge hits from several mons, return hefty damage in return with the modest download set and also pivot out safely if needed.

 

Secondly, this thing still heavily restricts offensive play as many/most offensive mons can't switch into it (haven't calculated stuff like AV Machamp but Tri Attack can do 35-40% to Bisharp), not to mention the risk of being haxxed/RNG to death by Tri Attack spam (I've seen so many freezes when spectating UU matches).

 

The main stuff I believe can reliably check this are:

  • Porygon2¬†(lol)
  • Dusclops
  • Gigalith
  • Umbreon
  • Spiritomb(?)
  • Bronzong
  • Snorlax
  • Rhyperior (AV set?)
  • Empoleon (depends on chip damage & thunderbolt)¬†

Most of these can't do anything in return, except for possibly poisoning it which may or may not make a huge difference.

 

As for Shaymin, this is definitely A or S tier right now - the 40% special defense drop is annoying with Seed Flare and it has fantastic move coverage to restrict many offensive mons from switching in, but personally I'm not sure if this is banworthy yet, I'd rather wait to see what happens when p2 gets banned which should definitely take priority.

 

P.S. As always happy to provide calcs if needed to justify my opinion.

Edited by Imperial
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7 minutes ago, Imperial said:

I agree with the above comments - I love the Pokemon but Porygon2 should be banned from the tier.

 

First off, this is a Pokemon that can make any teambuild look way better than it is, especially more offensive teams as it can sponge hits from several mons, return hefty damage in return with the modest download set and also pivot out safely if needed.

 

Secondly, this thing still heavily restricts offensive play as many/most offensive mons can't switch into it (haven't calculated stuff like AV Machamp but Tri Attack can do 35-40% to Bisharp), not to mention the risk of being haxxed/RNG to death by Tri Attack spam (I've seen so many freezes when spectating UU matches).

 

The main stuff I believe can reliably check this are:

  • Porygon2¬†(lol)
  • Dusclops
  • Gigalith
  • Umbreon
  • Spiritomb(?)
  • Bronzong
  • Empoleon (depends on chip damage & thunderbolt)¬†

Most of these can't do anything in return, except for possibly poisoning it which may or may not make a huge difference.

 

As for Shaymin, this is definitely A or S tier right now - the 40% special defense drop is annoying with Seed Flare and it has fantastic move coverage to restrict many offensive mons from switching in, but personally I'm not sure if this is banworthy yet, I'd rather wait to see what happens when p2 gets banned which should definitely take priority.

 

P.S. As always happy to provide calcs if needed to justify my opinion.

Kind of agree with this, but you can't really rely on Bronzong neither Spiritomb (it'd need to be SpD invested and with either rest or something to force him out as toxic), about empo, you're forcing it to be SpWall, but it's definetely a hard switchin in many scenarios

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28 minutes ago, Imperial said:

I agree with the above comments - I love the Pokemon but Porygon2 should be banned from the tier.

 

First off, this is a Pokemon that can make any teambuild look way better than it is, especially more offensive teams as it can sponge hits from several mons, return hefty damage in return with the modest download set and also pivot out safely if needed.

 

Secondly, this thing still heavily restricts offensive play as many/most offensive mons can't switch into it (haven't calculated stuff like AV Machamp but Tri Attack can do 35-40% to Bisharp), not to mention the risk of being haxxed/RNG to death by Tri Attack spam (I've seen so many freezes when spectating UU matches).

 

The main stuff I believe can reliably check this are:

  • Porygon2¬†(lol)
  • Dusclops
  • Gigalith
  • Umbreon
  • Spiritomb(?)
  • Bronzong
  • Empoleon (depends on chip damage & thunderbolt)¬†

Most of these can't do anything in return, except for possibly poisoning it which may or may not make a huge difference.

 

As for Shaymin, this is definitely A or S tier right now - the 40% special defense drop is annoying with Seed Flare and it has fantastic move coverage to restrict many offensive mons from switching in, but personally I'm not sure if this is banworthy yet, I'd rather wait to see what happens when p2 gets banned which should definitely take priority.

 

P.S. As always happy to provide calcs if needed to justify my opinion.

I agree with everything here, except with the part that these pokemon "reliably" check Porygon2... Nothing reliably checks Porygon2. This mon is extremely centralizing and cancerous and should be banned asap. 

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4 minutes ago, gbwead said:

If P2 gets banned again as offensive uber instead of defensive uber, plz fire Munya.

This comment will get deleted in 3...2...1...

 

Porygon2 doesn't have any hope. PP nerf, new HAs and he is still broken for UU. Nothing can save it anymore.

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  • 2 months later...
30 minutes ago, Godhelll said:

It would seem correct to me to cancel the drop of SpeDef on Shaymin's seed flare.

 

The pokemon would still keep being very strong, but à least, fair

image.png

You're right, this would make the Pokemon more balanced.

 

Unfortunately modifying secondary effects of moves is an awful precedent to set and inarguably not the path we want to go down.

Edited by drewq
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4 hours ago, Godhelll said:

It would seem correct to me to cancel the drop of SpeDef on Shaymin's seed flare.

 

The pokemon would still keep being very strong, but à least, fair

image.png

 

3 hours ago, drewq said:

You're right, this would make the Pokemon more balanced.

 

Unfortunately modifying secondary effects of moves is an awful precedent to set and inarguably not the path we want to go down.

Just to add, it's also something not needed at this point, since the mon can simply be put in UUBL. Those sort of nerfs are a last resort for stuff deemed broken in OU. 

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20 hours ago, Godhelll said:

It would seem correct to me to cancel the drop of SpeDef on Shaymin's seed flare.

 

The pokemon would still keep being very strong, but à least, fair

image.png

Sorry but no, complex bans don't work like this. On MMO, Complex bans occur only in two very, VERY specific cases:

  • If a mon is broken enough to be¬†ubers,¬†as a condition to stay on OU(Example: Swords Dance Chomp, Hydreigon Draco Meteor), It could also happen on non-official right now¬†Little Cup format; or
  • If a mon got a fresh new Hidden Ability, it's complex banned instantly to OU(Mon + New Ability) , except if gimmick and no one cares about the HA,¬†until Tier Council discuss where is the best tier to place it. It happened during October to November 2022, with some of the¬†60+ HA released at once. Some examples are Staraptor Reckless, complex banned on UU until be moved to OU, and Nidotwins, both complex banned from NU and UU until TC decided that King would be OU and Queen would be UU.
Edited by caioxlive13
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