RysPicz Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 Please take pory2 back to OU where it belongs, I don't wanna make another long post about how it can switch in on half of the tier and then hit really fukn hard with hax attack/ coverage or w/e, all that has been said about it during previous discussion still applies TohnR, Godhelll, Umbramol and 2 others 5 Link to comment
pachima Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 38 minutes ago, RysPicz said: Please take pory2 back to OU where it belongs, I don't wanna make another long post about how it can switch in on half of the tier and then hit really fukn hard with hax attack/ coverage or w/e, all that has been said about it during previous discussion still applies You dont like a tier where a mon that has over 25% usage has 57%+ winrate despite this number being dropped down due to mirror matches? Link to comment
Ramallero Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 1 hour ago, RysPicz said: Please take pory2 back to OU where it belongs, I don't wanna make another long post about how it can switch in on half of the tier and then hit really fukn hard with hax attack/ coverage or w/e, all that has been said about it during previous discussion still applies For sure I will! Can you give me a semi-comp one? I will use it in my team 🙂 RysPicz 1 Link to comment
LeJovi Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 So I think these days have been enough already, P2 should not be in UU pachima, Sargeste and Imperial 3 Link to comment
caioxlive13 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 1 hour ago, LeJovi said: So I think these days have been enough already, P2 should not be in UU expected. How about shaymin? Like, people claimed that this mon would be broken on UU. It is really broken or not? Link to comment
pachima Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 1 hour ago, caioxlive13 said: expected. How about shaymin? Like, people claimed that this mon would be broken on UU. It is really broken or not? First things first. UU is broken. We have 3 Pokemon above 56% winrate. 2 of which above 20% usage. This is unprecedented outside of non-tiers, and should strike as an obvious flaw considering we both are counting mirror matches, dropping down the actual winrate, and that people were complaining PZ was broken when it was nowhere the combination of these 2 numbers. I still think Shaymin is broken, but the tier is so fragmented in an unbalanced way that is completely nonsense to just discuss multiple things at once, and P2 just needs to go asap first. LeJovi 1 Link to comment
Imperial Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 (edited) I agree with the above comments - I love the Pokemon but Porygon2 should be banned from the tier. First off, this is a Pokemon that can make any teambuild look way better than it is, especially more offensive teams as it can sponge hits from several mons, return hefty damage in return with the modest download set and also pivot out safely if needed. Secondly, this thing still heavily restricts offensive play as many/most offensive mons can't switch into it (haven't calculated stuff like AV Machamp but Tri Attack can do 35-40% to Bisharp), not to mention the risk of being haxxed/RNG to death by Tri Attack spam (I've seen so many freezes when spectating UU matches). The main stuff I believe can reliably check this are: Porygon2 (lol) Dusclops Gigalith Umbreon Spiritomb(?) Bronzong Snorlax Rhyperior (AV set?) Empoleon (depends on chip damage & thunderbolt) Most of these can't do anything in return, except for possibly poisoning it which may or may not make a huge difference. As for Shaymin, this is definitely A or S tier right now - the 40% special defense drop is annoying with Seed Flare and it has fantastic move coverage to restrict many offensive mons from switching in, but personally I'm not sure if this is banworthy yet, I'd rather wait to see what happens when p2 gets banned which should definitely take priority. P.S. As always happy to provide calcs if needed to justify my opinion. Edited March 19 by Imperial pachima, LeJovi and RysPicz 3 Link to comment
Shadow Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 7 minutes ago, Imperial said: I agree with the above comments - I love the Pokemon but Porygon2 should be banned from the tier. First off, this is a Pokemon that can make any teambuild look way better than it is, especially more offensive teams as it can sponge hits from several mons, return hefty damage in return with the modest download set and also pivot out safely if needed. Secondly, this thing still heavily restricts offensive play as many/most offensive mons can't switch into it (haven't calculated stuff like AV Machamp but Tri Attack can do 35-40% to Bisharp), not to mention the risk of being haxxed/RNG to death by Tri Attack spam (I've seen so many freezes when spectating UU matches). The main stuff I believe can reliably check this are: Porygon2 (lol) Dusclops Gigalith Umbreon Spiritomb(?) Bronzong Empoleon (depends on chip damage & thunderbolt) Most of these can't do anything in return, except for possibly poisoning it which may or may not make a huge difference. As for Shaymin, this is definitely A or S tier right now - the 40% special defense drop is annoying with Seed Flare and it has fantastic move coverage to restrict many offensive mons from switching in, but personally I'm not sure if this is banworthy yet, I'd rather wait to see what happens when p2 gets banned which should definitely take priority. P.S. As always happy to provide calcs if needed to justify my opinion. Kind of agree with this, but you can't really rely on Bronzong neither Spiritomb (it'd need to be SpD invested and with either rest or something to force him out as toxic), about empo, you're forcing it to be SpWall, but it's definetely a hard switchin in many scenarios Imperial 1 Link to comment
LeJovi Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 28 minutes ago, Imperial said: I agree with the above comments - I love the Pokemon but Porygon2 should be banned from the tier. First off, this is a Pokemon that can make any teambuild look way better than it is, especially more offensive teams as it can sponge hits from several mons, return hefty damage in return with the modest download set and also pivot out safely if needed. Secondly, this thing still heavily restricts offensive play as many/most offensive mons can't switch into it (haven't calculated stuff like AV Machamp but Tri Attack can do 35-40% to Bisharp), not to mention the risk of being haxxed/RNG to death by Tri Attack spam (I've seen so many freezes when spectating UU matches). The main stuff I believe can reliably check this are: Porygon2 (lol) Dusclops Gigalith Umbreon Spiritomb(?) Bronzong Empoleon (depends on chip damage & thunderbolt) Most of these can't do anything in return, except for possibly poisoning it which may or may not make a huge difference. As for Shaymin, this is definitely A or S tier right now - the 40% special defense drop is annoying with Seed Flare and it has fantastic move coverage to restrict many offensive mons from switching in, but personally I'm not sure if this is banworthy yet, I'd rather wait to see what happens when p2 gets banned which should definitely take priority. P.S. As always happy to provide calcs if needed to justify my opinion. I agree with everything here, except with the part that these pokemon "reliably" check Porygon2... Nothing reliably checks Porygon2. This mon is extremely centralizing and cancerous and should be banned asap. Shadow, MiraiZura, HumongousNoodle and 4 others 7 Link to comment
gbwead Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 If P2 gets banned again as offensive uber instead of defensive uber, plz fire Munya. Link to comment
caioxlive13 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 4 minutes ago, gbwead said: If P2 gets banned again as offensive uber instead of defensive uber, plz fire Munya. This comment will get deleted in 3...2...1... Porygon2 doesn't have any hope. PP nerf, new HAs and he is still broken for UU. Nothing can save it anymore. Shadow 1 Link to comment
LifeStyleNORE Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 wow what a surprise P2 still broken anyways... TohnR 1 Link to comment
LeJovi Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 Shaymin discussion? Justa102, gbwead, pachima and 4 others 7 Link to comment
Huargensy Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 It was something I mentioned recently, shaymin really seems like a problem to me MadaraSixSix, pachima and DoubleJ 3 Link to comment
Justa102 Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 Yes please make a discussion about shaymin Im tired of seeing seed flares dropping my spdef DoubleJ, MadaraSixSix and Onraider 2 1 Link to comment
gbwead Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 Just play sap sipper miltank, noobs. DoubleJ, MadaraSixSix and CaptnBaklava 3 Link to comment
Godhelll Posted Saturday at 05:52 AM Share Posted Saturday at 05:52 AM (edited) It would seem correct to me to cancel the drop of SpeDef on Shaymin's seed flare. The pokemon would still keep being very strong, but à least, fair Edited Saturday at 05:52 AM by Godhelll MadaraSixSix 1 Link to comment
drewq Posted Saturday at 06:22 AM Share Posted Saturday at 06:22 AM (edited) 30 minutes ago, Godhelll said: It would seem correct to me to cancel the drop of SpeDef on Shaymin's seed flare. The pokemon would still keep being very strong, but à least, fair You're right, this would make the Pokemon more balanced. Unfortunately modifying secondary effects of moves is an awful precedent to set and inarguably not the path we want to go down. Edited Saturday at 06:22 AM by drewq Link to comment
LifeStyleNORE Posted Saturday at 09:58 AM Share Posted Saturday at 09:58 AM 4 hours ago, Godhelll said: It would seem correct to me to cancel the drop of SpeDef on Shaymin's seed flare. The pokemon would still keep being very strong, but à least, fair 3 hours ago, drewq said: You're right, this would make the Pokemon more balanced. Unfortunately modifying secondary effects of moves is an awful precedent to set and inarguably not the path we want to go down. Just to add, it's also something not needed at this point, since the mon can simply be put in UUBL. Those sort of nerfs are a last resort for stuff deemed broken in OU. TohnR and pachima 2 Link to comment
caioxlive13 Posted Sunday at 02:26 AM Share Posted Sunday at 02:26 AM (edited) 20 hours ago, Godhelll said: It would seem correct to me to cancel the drop of SpeDef on Shaymin's seed flare. The pokemon would still keep being very strong, but à least, fair Sorry but no, complex bans don't work like this. On MMO, Complex bans occur only in two very, VERY specific cases: If a mon is broken enough to be ubers, as a condition to stay on OU(Example: Swords Dance Chomp, Hydreigon Draco Meteor), It could also happen on non-official right now Little Cup format; or If a mon got a fresh new Hidden Ability, it's complex banned instantly to OU(Mon + New Ability) , except if gimmick and no one cares about the HA, until Tier Council discuss where is the best tier to place it. It happened during October to November 2022, with some of the 60+ HA released at once. Some examples are Staraptor Reckless, complex banned on UU until be moved to OU, and Nidotwins, both complex banned from NU and UU until TC decided that King would be OU and Queen would be UU. Edited Sunday at 02:33 AM by caioxlive13 Link to comment
Godhelll Posted 21 hours ago Share Posted 21 hours ago Is something going to be done about Shaymin ? MadaraSixSix and LeJovi 2 Link to comment
MadaraSixSix Posted 6 hours ago Share Posted 6 hours ago full players say shaymin is probleme for UU what does the tc say about shaymin it opens a discussion ? or the pokemon is correct for the UU? Huargensy and Justa102 2 Link to comment
PoseidonWrath Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago There will be a Shaymin discussion thread soon Sargeste 1 Link to comment
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