October-2023 Movement Discussion

[Bertolfoso]

Sacred Fire is a gen2 move so Entei will get it, which not only will be very annoying to switch into thanks to its burn chance, but also has no recoil which effectively increases the bulk difference between the two (it does have low PP, though). Pressure is alright, but can be used effectively with, like razimove said, a special cm set (sub protect lava plume, or even with Toxic over one of the status moves).

One day™ it might also get its HA which is more useful for physical attacking variants.

 

95 -> 100 is a pretty relevant speed jump as well

[razimove]

34 minutes ago, pachima said:

sacred fire is a gen 3? move, so it will be added here for Entei.

oops I stand corrected, thanks 

[TohnR]

Basically Entei does exactly the same as the "main" Arcanine set but better.
Arcanine has some side uses like Intimidate + Rocky Helmet or mixed attacker in the sun, but those represent less than like 5% of what Arcanine is used for

If you're going for Band or Life Orb 4 moves, just use Entei tbh. And that alone means Entei will not drop bellow UU (also I was assuming it has access to Stone Edge & Sacred Fire in exchange for the loss of Wild Charge and Morning Sun iirc)

Edited September 27, 2023 by TohnR

[RysPicz]

1 hour ago, TohnR said:

Basically Entei does exactly the same as the "main" Arcanine set but better.
Arcanine has some side uses like Intimidate + Rocky Helmet or mixed attacker in the sun, but those represent less than like 5% of what Arcanine is used for

If you're going for Band or Life Orb 4 moves, just use Entei tbh. And that alone means Entei will not drop bellow UU (also I was assuming it has access to Stone Edge & Sacred Fire in exchange for the loss of Wild Charge and Morning Sun iirc)

*and Close Combat

[Mnemosyne]

7 hours ago, Munya said:

 

Based on what is Nidoqueen Borderline2? Genuine question

[Munya]

All of the threads can be found in the archive usually with a relatively easy search.

[Mnemosyne]

But that's like 6 months ago. Maybe worth to reconsider?

[Munya]

We have tossed around the idea of a length of time before any ban must at the very least be re-discussed but as it currently stands a TC member would have to bring it to the table.

[JurassicMick]

I know NU has already enough issues with those mons dropping but it's weird to not see Zoroark or Swamper since both may be below the cutdown and they ain't banned 

[Munya]

I am unsure of what you mean, to move up they need to be above the cutoff not below.

[DoubleJ]

Venomoth has been quick banned by the TC and will not drop to NU with the upcoming tier changes. 

 

Medicham failed a quick ban and will drop with the upcoming changes. It is still eligible for the standard ban process and will be watched closely. 

[Imperial]

3 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

Venomoth has been quick banned by the TC and will not drop to NU with the upcoming tier changes. 

 

Medicham failed a quick ban and will drop with the upcoming changes. It is still eligible for the standard ban process and will be watched closely. 

Fairest decision IMO.

[Imperial]

7 hours ago, Mnemosyne said:

But that's like 6 months ago. Maybe worth to reconsider?

Nothing has significantly changed since then even with the current drops, except for (maybe?) Milotic.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Imperial

[caioxlive13]

On 9/26/2023 at 11:08 PM, xStarr said:

 

2) Why are you calcing WIld Charge Eelektross when its main set is Spatk variant?  

252+ SpA Eelektross Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 120-144 (59.4 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 SpA Milotic Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Gear Eelektross: 37-45 (19.2 - 23.4%) -- possible 5HKO

 

This show what i described, calc are with 0 Spd Milotic. Most physical mons doesn't go on milotic anyway due to scald's burn risk(only Swellow and Luxray, due to guts, they doesn't care to burn. However both doesn't touch steelix, and they're very weak overall, so they're not that relevant), so milotic can go calm (and still hold flame orb for +def if she needs) and holds very well 1/3 of entire tier.

Edited September 29, 2023 by caioxlive13

[epicdavenport]

58 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

This show what i described, calc are with 0 Spd Milotic. Most physical mons doesn't go on milotic anyway due to scald's burn risk(only Swellow and Luxray, due to guts, they doesn't care to burn. However both doesn't touch steelix, and they're very weak overall, so they're not that relevant), so milotic can go calm (and still hold flame orb for +def if she needs) and holds very well 1/3 of entire tier.

No love for Hariyama?

[caioxlive13]

13 minutes ago, epicdavenport said:

No love for Hariyama?

He was on untiered too, right? It can be used a lot now, since tier lost it's main fight-type. If will be good it's still a doubt.

 

On 9/27/2023 at 10:42 PM, DoubleJ said:

Venomoth has been quick banned by the TC and will not drop to NU with the upcoming tier changes. 

 

Medicham failed a quick ban and will drop with the upcoming changes. It is still eligible for the standard ban process and will be watched closely. 

Thank god at least one quickban vote passed. If not, TC could suspect and possibly ban only one of them, while the other we would have to wait until second week of november to see an action(Policy states only one suspect at a time and another can't be started for a month if the suspect ends with the mon suspected being banned).

Edited September 29, 2023 by caioxlive13

[xStarr]

1 hour ago, caioxlive13 said:

He was on untiered too, right? It can be used a lot now, since tier lost it's main fight-type. If will be good it's still a doubt.

 

Thank god at least one quickban vote passed. If not, TC could suspect and possibly ban only one of them, while the other we would have to wait until second week of november to see an action(Policy states only one suspect at a time and another can't be started for a month if the suspect ends with the mon suspected being banned).

Hariyama is considered NU.. and ppl won't play Milotic flame orb as much. Thats if they want to take burn dmg and rocks dmg every time they switch in. 

[caioxlive13]

1 hour ago, xStarr said:

Hariyama is considered NU.. and ppl won't play Milotic flame orb as much. Thats if they want to take burn dmg and rocks dmg every time they switch in. 

Everything will turn around it's counters. Except for Hariyama and others i mentioned, no mon would switch onto scald, so most of Milotics I bet that will be Calm, to reforce their SpD side that milotics will need a lot.
(For Untiered's unofficial meta it's banned so it's fine to me, I don't play NU that much so XD.)

[Axelgor]

It's a waste to use Milotic as a physical or special wall when Slowking and Quagsire play similar roles, using it offensively to switch in on defogs vs Gligar, Golbat, Mantine to get the +2 Sp. Att is a bigger threat than people realise

[caioxlive13]

6 hours ago, Axelgor said:

It's a waste to use Milotic as a physical or special wall when Slowking and Quagsire play similar roles, using it offensively to switch in on defogs vs Gligar, Golbat, Mantine to get the +2 Sp. Att is a bigger threat than people realise

yea, but you still has to deal with your speed. Maybe DD can be used purely for the speed boost? Idk if Milotic gets agility for that. Anyways, the main problem to solve is speed but once players found a way to fix that, only Unaware quagsire will stop Milotics once setuped(But will fear scald a lot if uses quake)

Edited September 30, 2023 by caioxlive13

[Munya]

Now live in game:

 

To OU:
Gastrodon
Bronzong

 

 

To UU:
Golem
Ludicolo
Ninjask
Blaziken
Seismitoad
Xatu
Venusaur

 

Banned to BL2:

Venomoth

 

To NU:
Aerodactyl
Blastoise

Medicham
Milotic

 

 

I will also be looking over and making decisions on the TC applications in the upcoming few days.

[Bearminator]

Those changes will be REVERSED for the duration of the Team Tournament. 
I will post the information after tournament when tiers will come back to the state mentioned by Munya

[Munya]

[Bearminator]

8 hours ago, Munya said:

Now live in game:

 

To OU:
Gastrodon
Bronzong

 

 

To UU:
Golem
Ludicolo
Ninjask
Blaziken
Seismitoad
Xatu
Venusaur

 

Banned to BL2:

Venomoth

 

To NU:
Aerodactyl
Blastoise

Medicham
Milotic

 

 

I will also be looking over and making decisions on the TC applications in the upcoming few days.

Those changes are now in-game.

 

[Munya]

Lifestyle will be leaving TC, we greatly appreciate the work and time he put into the position and wish him well..

 

Lumiere and Axelgor are our two new members, welcome to the team.

This was a very hard decision as we had a lot of really good applicants and applications this time around, but if you didn't get chosen don't be discouraged.  Keep participating in discussions & the competitive scene and you may get picked next time.