October-2023 Movement Discussion

[Munya]

Final month of the season, 3.75 to go down 4.75 to go up.

 

To OU:
Gastrodon
Bronzong

 

 

To UU:
Golem
Ludicolo
Ninjask
Blaziken
Seismitoad
Xatu
Venusaur

 

 

To NU:
Aerodactyl
Blastoise

Medicham
Milotic
Venomoth

 

Additionally we are looking for a new member for TC, if you wish to apply please do so by DMing me here on the forums or if you have in the past and would still like the opportunity, letting me know by bumping your prior application.

[NiceRNGbro]

And began...

[ChronoRike]

Well tbh this moves looks good we all know the most stuff that goes to UU from NU is by the usage of HO with golem in sun with the ninjask stuff also u bring milo that can handle the Toise shell smash abuser, now tbh NU is quite hard to handle since stalls gonna be crazys but nothing much we still have good wall breakers that are not used like CB Primeape Sharpedo etc thanks for those moves looks heat af

[Munya]

Sorry guys, I missed Medicham.

[PizzaConewe]

Medi can sweep all in nu imo

[Sargeste]

I assume Durant was BL1 then?

[pachima]

Medicham is able to 2hko the entire the tier with the same 4 moves. Not only that it is also able to play plenty of viable variants, including priority to deal with offense and a Bulk up set for a sweeping set. 

 

The only Pokemon that could stop Medicham reliably would be Musharna, which is irrelevant, non-existant, and way too exploitable/abusable nevertheless. 

 

I could utter a bible for why venomoth is also too absurd in the tier, but Medicham is my main priority here, because there is no way this Pokemon is any legit in this NU format.

[Imperial]

Since my original comment got deleted...

 

It's nice to see Blaziken finally rise to UU after all these months, it's a shame we now have to deal with Medicham/Blastoise/Venomoth/Milotic in NU (Venomoth and Medicham being the main concerns).

 

Oh well...

[ChronoRike]

10 minutes ago, pachima said:

Medicham is able to 2hko the entire the tier with the same 4 moves. Not only that it is also able to play plenty of viable variants, including priority to deal with offense and a Bulk up set for a sweeping set. 

 

The only Pokemon that could stop Medicham reliably would be Musharna, which is irrelevant, non-existant, and way too exploitable/abusable nevertheless. 

 

I could utter a bible for why venomoth is also too absurd in the tier, but Medicham is my main priority here, because there is no way this Pokemon is any legit in this NU format.

Musharna Slowbro only can check them also u can go for a dusk bold shit but 252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusknoir: 121-144 (41.1 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery so isnt a safe switch

[pachima]

2 minutes ago, ChronoRike said:

Musharna Slowbro only can check them also u can go for a dusk bold shit but 252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusknoir: 121-144 (41.1 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery so isnt a safe switch

1- Medicham has no issues going adamant, since the main contenders for the speedtie are gone. (Also the speedy walls can outspeed any spread they desire neverhteless)

2- Any hazards turn that jolly calc into something not favorable for dusknoir.

3- Dusknoir has no reliable recovery, meaning the best it can do after the first Zen to recover any HP is to pain split.

4- Even considering alignea 3, Dusknoir loses in this scenario, and the best it can do is trade its life for a burn.

[gbwead]

I really pushed for this new movement system and I'm very happy TC decided to implement it. This is the first cycle where 2 seperate cutoff points are used for movements and I understand if it looks like at first glance there are still too many movements and disruptions. However, I would like to point out that if we were still using the old system, we would have had even more movements.

On top of everything already dropping to NU, we would also have Zoroark, Swampert and Feraligatr moving down. And on top of everything already rising to UU, we would also have Mantine moving up.

We still have to deal with a lot of shitty instability, but it's still progress and better than what could have been imo.

Edited September 25, 2023 by gbwead

[Munya]

I don't think anybody's blaming the cutoffs for this one, UU got weather, it was bound to make a massive splash.

[Godhelll]

1 hour ago, Munya said:

Additionally we are looking for a new member for TC, if you wish to apply please do so by DMing me here on the forums or if you have in the past and would still like the opportunity, letting me know by bumping your prior application.

@caioxlive13 you're the man of the situation

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Godhelll

[ChronoRike]

Well last 30 min posted the new changes and a new monster coming down to nu, yes medicham here are some calcs I started doing + most of situations.

Slowbro:

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 177-208 (44.9 - 52.7%) -- 22.7% chance to 2HKO

Dusknoir:

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusknoir: 121-144 (41.1 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusknoir: 107-126 (36.3 - 42.8%) -- 96% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 

Here u have lot of situations:

1. Miss the zen headbutt and let dusknoir wow u or kill u with a ghost move

2. Psycut him and resist the hit, nothing bad.

  2.1. Psycut him and crit him

  252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusknoir on a critical hit: 160-188 (54.4 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 

   so that let u kill him without criting next.

Musharna:

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 125-147 (28.6 - 33.7%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Musharna on a critical hit: 109-129 (25 - 29.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 104-123 (23.8 - 28.2%) -- 94.5% chance to 4HKO 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 104-123 (23.8 - 28.2%) -- 94.5% chance to 4HKO

  1. In this scenario if scarf he can trick u and gives a big f on this wall.

Qwilfish:

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 198-234 (59.2 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 140-166 (41.9 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 82-97 (24.5 - 29%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO 

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 221-265 (66.1 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 

       -Same scenarios than dusknoir if crits.

         -1 252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish on a critical hit: 439-517 (131.4 - 154.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This gives u an opportunity to swap into other wall and scout if scarf Lo etc also u can use a heal wisher with him or use pain split.

Alomomola: 

 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 259-305 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 152-179 (28.4 - 33.5%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 218-257 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 173-204 (32.3 - 38.2%) -- 97.1% chance to 3HKO

Altaria:

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 161-191 (45.4 - 53.9%) -- 46.1% chance to 2HKO 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 142-168 (40.1 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 121-142 (34.1 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 101-120 (28.5 - 33.8%) -- 0.8% chance to 3HKO 

Gligar:

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 78-94 (23.3 - 28.1%) -- 84.7% chance to 4HKO 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 91-109 (27.2 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 105-125 (31.4 - 37.4%) -- 80.4% chance to 3HKO 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 156+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 265-312 (79.3 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 

Quagsire:

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 250-294 (63.4 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 250-294 (63.4 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 165-196 (41.8 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 146-173 (37 - 43.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 

Misdreavus:

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 216 HP / 216+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 125-148 (39.6 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 216 HP / 216+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 142-169 (45 - 53.6%) -- 38.3% chance to 2HKO 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Ice Punch vs. 216 HP / 216+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 88-105 (27.9 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO

Chimecho:

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chimecho: 129-152 (36.4 - 42.9%) -- 98.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chimecho: 109-129 (30.7 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chimecho: 75-90 (21.1 - 25.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chimecho: 86-101 (24.2 - 28.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Claydol:

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Claydol: 109-129 (33.6 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Claydol: 185-218 (57 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Claydol: 64-75 (19.7 - 23.1%) -- possible 5HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Claydol: 73-86 (22.5 - 26.5%) -- 24% chance to 4HKO

Tangrowth:

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 192-227 (47.5 - 56.1%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 161-192 (39.8 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 113-134 (27.9 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 129-152 (31.9 - 37.6%) -- 88.1% chance to 3HKO

   His evo Tangela.

   Tangela:

    252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 136-161 (40.8 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 

    252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 117-138 (35.1 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 

    252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 79-95 (23.7 - 28.5%) -- 97% chance to 4HKO

    252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 91-109 (27.3 - 32.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO 

 

Exeggutor:

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Exeggutor: 125-147 (31.7 - 37.3%) -- 83.7% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Exeggutor: 208-247 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Exeggutor: 73-86 (18.5 - 21.8%) -- possible 5HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Exeggutor: 82-97 (20.8 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

Gardevoir:

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gardevoir: 73-86 (21.4 - 25.2%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO 

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gardevoir: 122-144 (35.8 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gardevoir: 86-101 (25.2 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Pure Power Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gardevoir: 97-116 (28.5 - 34.1%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO 

   Also Gardevoir can recover + wow him or just teleport and win a good moment.

 

 

Well with all this i just want to show all the checkers nu has for this mon + the dmg medicham deal vs them so u guys can decide and discuss everything u see about this dropp maybe i miss other mons that can wall or check him so tell me to add to the list, thanks all for ur attention.

[TohnR]

@ChronoRike All those calcs being Jolly medicham which is WAY worse than Adamant. 

The main use for Jolly Medicham in UU used to be the scarf set (which guaranteed to outspeed Crobat, Jolteon, +1 Feraligatr and such). I would think most wallbreaker Medichams will run Adamant in NU as well (the set we're looking at with Life Orb)

From your calcs, pure ghost and pure psychic seem to be the most relevant mons to handle Medicham as we thought

 

 

Now about UU, Bronzong being gone is very worrying to me.

2nd most used mon in the tier as we speak, and a glue in stall and balanced playstyles. The latter was already suffering from recent changes and borderline unviable. 

Even more worrying, the viable mons with highest winrates in UU were already : Gigalith (4.3% usage, 61% WR), Quagsire (4.1% / 58% WR), Tentacruel (7.9% u, 57.7% WR), Hippowdon (7.6% u, 56% WR), Donphan (14% u, 56% WR) and a bit further away Sigilyph (5.9% u, 56% WR) all of which benefit GREATLY from Bronzong being gone.

To these mons we can add the recently trending Ninjask, Ambipom, as well as older threats such as Flygon, Cloyster, Crobat, Rhyperior, Durant, PorygonZ ...

 

Bronzong single handedly (you could add the much less used Forretress to this argument) forced specific coverage on a lot of Pokemon, such as Roserade, Ambipom, Sigilyph, Xatu, Flygon, Druddigon, Bisharp (Iron/Sucker/Psycut best set in theory without Bronzong) and so on ... It has always been one of the few mons capable of soft checking pretty much every Dragon Dancer and threaten them with Gyroball, preventing certain team archetypes to prevail.

It also was capable of winning a duel against most defoggers (except the specific taunt defog roost Mandibuzz or any Heatom) and spinners to be a powerhouse of hazard control in UnderUsed. 

 

I know this change is based on usage hence fair, I can simply warn that some mons might become too centralizing or too hard to punish for most teams now that our favorite bell is gone. Rest in peace

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by TohnR

[ChronoRike]

1 minute ago, TohnR said:

@ChronoRike All those calcs being Jolly medicham which is WAY worse than Adamant. 

The main use for Jolly Medicham in UU used to be the scarf set (which guaranteed to outspeed Crobat, Jolteon, +1 Feraligatr and such). I would think most wallbreaker Medichams will run Adamant in NU as well (the set we're looking at with Life Orb)

 

 

Now about UU, Bronzong being gone is very worrying to me.

2nd most used mon in the tier as we speak, and a glue in stall and balanced playstyles. The latter was already suffering from recent changes and borderline unviable. 

Even more worrying, the viable mons with highest winrates in UU were already : Gigalith (4.3% usage, 61% WR), Quagsire (4.1% / 58% WR), Tentacruel (7.9% u, 57.7% WR), Hippowdon (7.6% u, 56% WR), Donphan (14% u, 56% WR) and a bit further away Sigilyph (5.9% u, 56% WR) all of which benefit GREATLY from Bronzong being gone.

To these mons we can add the recently trending Ninjask, Ambipom, as well as older threats such as Flygon, Cloyster, Crobat, Rhyperior, Durant, PorygonZ ...

 

Bronzong single handedly (you could add the much less used Forretress to this argument) forced specific coverage on a lot of Pokemon, such as Roserade, Ambipom, Sigilyph, Xatu, Flygon, Druddigon, Bisharp (Iron/Sucker/Psycut best set in theory without Bronzong) and so on ... It has always been one of the few mons capable of soft checking pretty much every Dragon Dancer and threaten them with Gyroball, preventing certain team archetypes to prevail.

It also was capable of winning a duel against most defoggers (unless they ran taunt or were named Heatom) and spinners to be a powerhouse of hazard control in UnderUsed. 

 

I know this change is based on usage hence fair, I can simply warn that some mons might become too centralizing or too hard to punish for most teams now that our favorite bell is gone. Rest in peace

 

Forget that fact lmao

[SweeTforU]

Medi is just the new blaziken. Still gotta predict right vs it and gotta hope it's one set and not the other. I doubt it'll be broken when we test it

[Bertolfoso]

I personally think Medicham is deserving of a test. While it is an amazing wall breaker, it comes with a lot of weaknesses, like many of its kind. It's slow compared to other offensive pokemon, while lacking a strong reliable priority move (with Fake out being OK at chipping, but with its first turn limitation, and Bullet Punch being incredibly weak without STAB and a steel move; both still have their uses) and frail. Its typing leaves it with almost no defensive utility which means it requires aggressive play to get use out of it.

 

It is true that Medicham can be tough to switch into, but so can be many other pokemon, including (ex ;-; ) tier king Blaziken. Fighting+Psychic are a good STAB combination, but both are flawed, both having quite a number of resistances and 1 immunity each. Its frailty makes it so that getting a play wrong with it can be very dangerous. 

 

I think it is more likely to stay that to it being banned, but it's still something that has to be under the radar for now.

 

 

Venomoth  

Edited September 25, 2023 by Bertolfoso

[LeJovi]

Yes yes.. the medicham in very good in NU... 

[KaizakiKun]

I don't like Medichan and Venomoth's movements, there are no concrete things that stop these two in the tier 

[xStarr]

Did this last night just watching the usage but here are my thoughts right now of what could happen:

 

You can definitely test Medicham to an extent. At the end of the day, its going to rely on predicts and to me it looks like we got our new Blaziken except we won't see mixed ones. tho I would opt for banning Medi and letting Veonomoth drop. 

 

Venomoth: My instant reaction was that it might get banned but that may not be the case so just wanted to show some calcs if you were curious.

Spoiler

+1 252+ SpA Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 82-97 (40.5 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ SpA Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Milotic: 61-73 (30.1 - 36.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

-------

+1 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Altaria: 68-82 (37.3 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ SpA Venomoth Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Altaria: 69-82 (37.9 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Altaria: 96-114 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

------

+1 252+ SpA Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gigalith in Sand: 55-66 (28.6 - 34.3%) -- 98.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ SpA Venomoth Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gigalith in Sand: 62-74 (32.2 - 38.5%) -- 2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

---------

+1 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mantine: 74-88 (38.7 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ SpA Venomoth Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mantine: 75-88 (39.2 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ SpA Venomoth Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 57-67 (29.8 - 35%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 56-66 (29.3 - 34.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

--------------------

 

We all know there will be different variants of everything including bold perhaps but wanted to display full dmg onto walls. I mostly showed mons that are capable of hazing it and considering if another mon is slept in this scenario. 

We do have mons that can't fall asleep to Sleep Powder

Vital Spirit/Insomnia/Other Revenge Killers: Showed some users that can't fall asleep and then some AV mons

252 Atk Primeape Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomoth: 148-176 (102 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(+1 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Primeape: 130-154 (92.8 - 110%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO)

------------------

252+ Atk Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomoth: 330-390 (227.5 - 268.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(+1 252 SpA Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Gear Honchkrow: 102-120 (49.2 - 57.9%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO)

-----------------

252 SpA Magmortar Fire Blast vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Venomoth: 152-182 (104.8 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(+1 252 SpA Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magmortar: 94-112 (62.6 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO  SludgeB does the same)

-----------------

252 Atk Electivire Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomoth: 124-148 (85.5 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

(+1 252+ SpA Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Electivire: 112-133 (74.6 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)

--------------------------

252+ Atk Sheer Force Druddigon Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomoth: 174-206 (120 - 142%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(+1 252+ SpA Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Assault Gear Druddigon: 73-87 (40.1 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO)

---------------------

 

 

I think if they allow Venomoth we might see more abuse of Assault vest into things like Muk or Honchkrow, Druddigon. I want it banned and I know this ain't the final usage movements but we will see. 

 

Milotic: is finally going to get some love. Nice mon honestly. It can range from being a massive tank and can go offensive if you want to abuse Competitive. 

Blastoise: 100% a test. Again we have to wait and see what will be the standard set and I'm going to assume it will have to be some mixed shit with EQ for Lanturn. but def worth testing.

 

ED: Blastoise has to choose what to cover with his last two move slots after main stab Surf so I think we will have a good chance of dealing with this rather than the other two that may be dropped.

 EX for Mixed: SS, EQ, Surf, HP Electric  [You hit Lanturn, Qwilfish, Quagsire, Mantine but miss out on hitting Altaria, Druddigon, Grass types like Sceptile with Ice Beam] 

Ex 2 for Modest -  SS, Surf, Ice Beam, HP Grass [You are able to hit Grass types, Dragons, Waters eg: Quag/Slowking but miss out on doing more dmg to Lanturn/Qwilfish/Mantine]

Edited September 26, 2023 by xStarr

[NiceRNGbro]

It deserves the test (Medicham), We can't be afraid of changes forever guys, the medicham situation for me is similar to Gallade in OU at the beginning, I don't think it deserves BL2.

 

I saw it being tested: Staraptor reckless UU, lucario UU (2022), P2 and dugtrio spent months wandering in UU, shaymin UU, nidoqueen & vaporeon NU

 

For the metagame to actually change, we must let them change, I'm not talking about letting broken things go down and closing our eyes

 

I ask you to test it and that's it, I've seen the ridiculous banning of Electrode in NU, today untiered.

 

If it's broken, really broken, take it out. Simple.

[PoseidonWrath]

It's unbelievable how the game has deteriorated after the introduction of hidden abilities. There's no stability whatsoever, and with every event, we get more hidden abilities and Pokémon that disrupt the game further. Teambuilding has never been more challenging. This game is becoming more frustrating.

You just can't convince me that it's possible to build a team in OU with six Pokémon that can handle rain, hyper offense, Suicune, Raikou, Serperior, and stall. The meta is all about match-up fishing.
 

Furthermore, those in control, and I don't need to name them, will jump at any opportunity to introduce Pokémon like Magic Guard Alakazam with Nasty Plot, which have no real counters. In Generation 5, Nasty Plot was removed, and it's frustrating to see it return here.

Take what you will from this. The way the Tier Council manages things makes their existence almost invisible. But since everyone is in their comfort zone, no one is willing to speak up because they will get silenced

Edited September 25, 2023 by PoseidonWrath

[KaizakiKun]

40 minutes ago, NiceRNGbro said:

Merece o teste (Medicham), Não podemos ter medo de mudanças para sempre galera, a situação do mediham para mim é parecida com a do Gallade em OU no começo, não acho que mereça BL2.

 

Eu vi sendo testado: Staraptor imprudente UU, lucario UU (2022), P2 e dugtrio passaram meses vagando em UU, shaymin UU, nidoqueen & vaporeon NU

 

Para que o metagame realmente mude, devemos deixá-los mudar, não estou falando sobre deixar coisas quebradas caírem e fecharmos os olhos

 

Peço que testem e pronto, vi o banimento ridículo do Electrode no NU, hoje desempilhado.

 

Se estiver quebrado, realmente quebrado, tire-o. Simples.

in fact, even though at first glance the pokemons that decide will be broken, the change is valid, apart from the fact that if there are no changes the meta doesn't change and the game doesn't become fun 

[Frag]

16 minutes ago, PoseidonWrath said:

It's unbelievable how the game has deteriorated after the introduction of hidden abilities. There's no stability whatsoever, and with every event, we get more hidden abilities and Pokémon that disrupt the game further. Teambuilding has never been more challenging. This game is becoming more frustrating.

You just can't convince me that it's possible to build a team in OU with six Pokémon that can handle rain, hyper offense, Suicune, Raikou, Serperior, and stall. The meta is all about match-up fishing.
 

Totally agree with this, it's sad that nowadays a match is decided like 80% by matchup and not skill.