January 2024 Movement Discussion

[CaptnBaklava]

1 minute ago, Doctor said:

Turns out I'm the one who can't read, sorry Captn o7

No worries bro ❤️

[Munya]

10 hours ago, CaptnBaklava said:

So there is discussion about SD Garchomp? Please tell me you just forgot to list it.

Up for discussion yes.

[RysPicz]

Unleash The Chomp

 

Spoiler

and after giving it SD back: onee chomp yamete

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by RysPicz

[Ziiiiio]

I remembered someone said Raikou will be top of the OU in few months ago lmao

[RysPicz]

1 hour ago, Ziiiiio said:

I remembered someone said Raikou will be top of the OU in few months ago lmao

He also said, that if Raikou isn't top of the OU, he's a door.

 

I had his post bookmarked for a while to come back to it when the time was right.

 

  

On 9/4/2023 at 7:58 PM, KeldeoCrowned said:

 Kou gonna be top viability in OU, or i'm a door 

he's a door

[Godhelll]

Rhyperior would be fine for NU

Edited December 29, 2023 by Godhelll

[epicdavenport]

1 hour ago, Godhelll said:

Rhyperior would be fine for NU

Could be worth a try. While it does have amazing wall breaking potential its speed really hurts it and the tier is filled with bulky water types now that can take a hit then retaliate. Even then I don't feel its potential is very different if at all between NU and UU. Rhyperior is also revenge killed by a lot of pokemon already in the tier and most (houndoom as example) already use hidden power grass for the plethora of water types.

 

0 SpA Milotic Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 219-261 (114.6 - 136.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Blastoise Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 192-228 (100.5 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Houndoom Hidden Power Grass vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 195-230 (102 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

Even going harder into bulk with assault vest it still gets 2hko by water and grass moves as well as being even slower than the aforementioned choice band set. The set also loses a significant amount of power and the amount of mons it 2 shots dwindles down.

 

0 SpA Quagsire Scald vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Solid Rock Rhyperior: 75-90 (39.2 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 79-94 (39.1 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

even a low special attack wall like quagsire can switch in, heal, and win the 1v1. 

 

The only downside I see is if you don't properly play around the choice band set it may punch to many holes in a team just on its own.

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 118-141 (58.4 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 124-147 (61.3 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 108-127 (58 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 148-176 (71.8 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 102-120 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

Edit: How are Braviary and Audino not moving up??

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by epicdavenport

[TohnR]

On 12/27/2023 at 7:47 PM, epicdavenport said:

252 Atk Guts Machamp Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Golbat: 78-92 (42.8 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

Point being that Golbat can easily outspeed max speed adamant Machamp and wait for burn chip to put it in range for Brave Bird.

I feel like Golbat is a great check/counter for most Machamp variations, actually much better than Crobat 🙂 

[gbwead]

If Golbat was used in OU to stop Conkeldurr, Machamp doesn't stand a chance.

[LeJovi]

1 hour ago, gbwead said:

If Golbat was used in OU to stop Conkeldurr, Machamp doesn't stand a chance.

Will be cool to see what's gonna happen next cycle when Golbat rises to UU by usage since it's being spammed to counter Machamp! 

[DoubleJ]

1 hour ago, LeJovi said:

Will be cool to see what's gonna happen next cycle when Golbat rises to UU by usage since it's being spammed to counter Machamp! 

Zubat hype.

[epicdavenport]

With the chance of Moltres being introduced next month is the TC opposed to it being immediately put into NU? While it does have a good offensive typing it's also Moltres' biggest weakness. The tier has powerful offensive water types (Azumarill/Blastoise/sharpedo) with priority or out speed as well as bulky water types (Mantine/Milotic/slowking) that can switch in. Hurricane does do high damage with specs but then its locked into a low accuracy move with bulky rock and steel types like steelix and bronzor in the tier. Life orb roost sets might be popular but then it loses its wall breaking potential. Mixed with a 4x weakness to rock you really have to give it all of the support it can get for effectiveness.

[razimove]

I like that people worry more about moltres introduction than Zapdos which will be standard in OU if it ends up coming

[epicdavenport]

1 hour ago, razimove said:

I like that people worry more about moltres introduction than Zapdos which will be standard in OU if it ends up coming

Everyone knows whats going to happen with Zapdos. Moltres is potentially more interesting where it ends up personally. Sun is very popular in UU right now and may see some use there (Charizards similar typing, movepool, and ability say otherwise though) or it could be a fun strong wall breaker in NU with heavy flaws.

 

I'm also very biased in the case of lower tiers.

[TohnR]

About the current bans, I think there is a potential to unban P2 and/or Shaymin for UU.

I've not really been playing lately but it seems that the tier damage output has risen a lot since we last banned p2, and there has been a recovery nerf that makes defensive teams less potent and hyper offensive much stronger with the introduction of all weathers as well as legendaries such as Raikou & Entei.

It appears to me as P2 should have a harder time switching in and recovering/pivoting freely as it used to be able to do

[gbwead]

P2 was already retested in UU following the pp nerf. As for weathers, P2 would imo be great at countering weathers since it is capable of tanking pretty much anything from weathers teams and hurts them back a lot in return. I think P2 would be a very annoying momentum killer for weathers teams. Physical Entei stands no chance vs P2. The only hope Entei and Raikou have is Sub+CM. I'm not sure that's enough to retest P2 but it's something. However, P2 would still have no offensive switch ins in the tier because I don't think sub+cm Raikou or Entei can afford switching into P2.

Edited December 30, 2023 by gbwead

[Munya]

Pretty much everything that wasn't in the previous post is up for discussion, the last day or two we've been doing that with garchomp, testing out a discord feature. If anyone wants to shill for it now is the time. As it currently stands its looking like it will remain as is until other things that can possibly deal with it are introduced but the discussion isn't over yet.

[kiwi]

since last time sd chomp was in the tier we haven't had any addition that can reliable check it, it will only make the tier more centralized and more matchup reliant, hopefully tc can see this and it doesnt get added, the few mons that could check it defensively are slowbro and tangrowth and even then i dont think they would be enough to handle it since they lack power to threaten to ohko although they would help for sure

id say until we dont get lando, mew or fairies it probably wont be balanced so please keep it banned

Edited December 30, 2023 by kiwi

[Frag]

we should stop talking about buffing dragons until fairy type is added, hydre was a mistake already

[Munya]

You are free to feel that way, we will however still be reviewing the bans.

 

All of the tier changes listed in the OP are now live in game

[epicdavenport]

16 minutes ago, Munya said:

You are free to feel that way, we will however still be reviewing the bans.

 

All of the tier changes listed in the OP are now live in game

So no Braviary and Audino in NU? 

[Munya]

If that is a NU/Untiered swap I'll probably be doing those later today, they are usually a day behind since I have the luxury of not needing to do them a few days ahead of time.

[PGS]

On 12/29/2023 at 10:04 PM, epicdavenport said:

Everyone knows whats going to happen with Zapdos.

Please tell us, Zapdos is now avaliable in-game(Articuno's rotation period ended, avaliable again only in March.). 
Zapdos about their usage will be same as Suicune and Serperior Early Months. However he has potential as a defensive threat. 
 

Spoiler

Off-topic , so spoiler again.
On PvE he is exciting because it can pair with Excadrill very well on Gym Reruns. This is notable as it will make the demand for them Higher and restrict their avaliability in early months. We won't be able to reach in conclusive results if it's broken or not because the number of games to analyze will be too low.

 

[RysPicz]

 

 

Zapdos is here. We are finally making one step towards a healthier metagame 🙂 I hope we will be able to get Heatran fairly soon as well.

[Munya]

Zapdos was put in OU, if that needs to be said.