OU Tier Discussion Request Thread

[Imperial]

23 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

Let me remind you that those legendarys are limited and by so they aren't spammed because a lot of players doesn't have acess to them. Suicune is overpowered as f***, yup he was still below 7% usage on past months

They honestly aren't that expensive and players have the chance to grind with Halloween and upcoming events, there honestly isn't much excuse.

[gbwead]

I was very afraid at first that the legendary trio would get the serperior treatment and cost 3-4 mil, but I have to give devs props because suicune, raikou and entei are actually affordable. 

[Tranzmaster]

Raikou isn't that expensive on GTL and to be honest I don't think that Raikou being a little bit more expensive or being less accessible is that big of a factor in the low usage. I'm not seeing Raikou in high ELO either so the argument doesn't hold up.

 

On the other hand, I have seen quite a lot of high ELO matches where I thought "Raikou would sweep here though".

 

I do think that it might see a little more play over time, but as always the meta would adapt to it as well - keep in mind that Dugtrio kills it and you need to scout for scarf users as well. It doesn't perform that great against weather teams either.

[caioxlive13]

22 hours ago, gbwead said:

I was very afraid at first that the legendary trio would get the serperior treatment and cost 3-4 mil, but I have to give devs props because suicune, raikou and entei are actually affordable. 

Still not, it's early so not everyone can afford. Over time, they would have more of them on circulation. Same happened with serperior, and Venusaur as well since their HA is good too and used the same patch, now they are actually affordable, the diference is unlike serp/venu, once a month is over the legend's price is frozen for the next two, unlike those both that the price is never frozen and tend to be lower over time.

Edited November 9, 2023 by caioxlive13

[Tranzmaster]

 

There's literally right now a perfect IV timid raikou on GTL for 1,15 mil... how is that not afforable.

 

Perfect IV Jolly Garchomp is more expensive at the moment...

 

Again, the argument doesn't hold up.

[RysPicz]

52 minutes ago, Tranzmaster said:

 

There's literally right now a perfect IV timid raikou on GTL for 1,15 mil... how is that not afforable.

 

Perfect IV Jolly Garchomp is more expensive at the moment...

 

Again, the argument doesn't hold up.

Don't bother discussing anything with him, just a heads up. Majority of us got him blocked and we just ignore what he says.

 

It will be better for your nerves, believe me

[DarylDixon]

On 11/8/2023 at 11:07 PM, caioxlive13 said:

Let me remind you that those legendarys are limited and by so they aren't spammed because a lot of players doesn't have acess to them. Suicune is overpowered as f***, yup he was still below 7% usage on past months

how can someone can't have access to get legendaries excuse me?  you can get it after you defeat ho-oh, if they aren't lazy to find it. netflix +  lure hunt is best way to no get bored 😄 

also with halloween event up , a maybe a future anniversary event(?) and xmas one that it is behind the doors people can even get their own legendary doggo easily from gtl.

 

and.. i hope you aren't talking about entei and raikou are 2 broken to be uu, because id find rather good them on that tier, maybe bit scary entei? cause of rk9 could drop  in nu? ( i can be wrong since both can do alot in a sun team, since rk9 can abuse of flash fire.

there are more legendaries that will come in the further future that will not be good for the OU tier , an exaple are the trio birds if they will come out one day one of them it can be even a NU mon lel

 

sorry my english jaja

[caioxlive13]

18 hours ago, Tranzmaster said:

 

There's literally right now a perfect IV timid raikou on GTL for 1,15 mil... how is that not afforable.

 

Perfect IV Jolly Garchomp is more expensive at the moment...

 

Again, the argument doesn't hold up.

Raikou was avaliable for a full month to catch. Suicune is more broken than Raikou but their usage is very close to Raikou's one and not 15+%, because you could catch them for only effectively 9 days(August month, was released within 10 days to end and assuming ppl would take at least 1 day to finish johto unless they're tryharding, then 9 days to pick them up.). Effectively because de facto it are avaliable for 19 days, counting those from this month. But no one really are going look at them in the middle of the Halloween event. 

Also IVs perfect aren't exactly a parameter for the legendarys because it comes 3x31 at least, and you can up the IVs with Rainbow quills(Assuming 15+ on the remaining stats, you'll need at worst 48 quills or 280k(You get 20 just catching the dog). Plus Nature herbs but that i don't recall the price.)

This argument may fall over time, because when the month passes there will be more and more of them on the GTL. 
 

2 hours ago, DarylDixon said:

how can someone can't have access to get legendaries excuse me?  you can get it after you defeat ho-oh, if they aren't lazy to find it. netflix +  lure hunt is best way to no get bored 😄 

also with halloween event up , a maybe a future anniversary event(?) and xmas one that it is behind the doors people can even get their own legendary doggo easily from gtl.

 

and.. i hope you aren't talking about entei and raikou are 2 broken to be uu, because id find rather good them on that tier, maybe bit scary entei? cause of rk9 could drop  in nu? ( i can be wrong since both can do alot in a sun team, since rk9 can abuse of flash fire.

there are more legendaries that will come in the further future that will not be good for the OU tier , an exaple are the trio birds if they will come out one day one of them it can be even a NU mon lel

 

sorry my english jaja

I'm not saying that they're broken to UU but at least for those starting month, since there is not many of them, is too early to them be considered on monthly movement usage. I think they could be evaluated on usage from Febuary onwards, because all of them would be avaliable for 2 months at least and there will be enough of them on GTL to have a parameter when looking for usage.

Even shaymin is suffering from limited usage due to limited avaliability, it appears once in the year after all.
 

Edited November 10, 2023 by caioxlive13

[pachima]

On 11/8/2023 at 10:31 PM, Imperial said:

They honestly aren't that expensive and players have the chance to grind with Halloween and upcoming events, there honestly isn't much excuse.

Except the vast majority of OU ladder consists on casual people that won't be able to afford these Pokemon. And yes, 1m is a lot when you are just starting this game. And no, usage doesn't care about the few 0.01% players that actually play this competitively. Non filtered usage is really meh when it comes to limited Pokemon.

Suicune has 4% usage AND was the first Legendary. That alone should show everyone of this.

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by pachima

[caioxlive13]

2 hours ago, pachima said:

Except the vast majority of OU ladder consists on casual people that won't be able to afford these Pokemon. And yes, 1m is a lot when you are just starting this game. And no, usage doesn't care about the few 0.01% players that actually play this competitively. Non filtered usage is really meh when it comes to limited Pokemon.

Suicune has 4% usage AND was the first Legendary. That alone should show everyone of this.

 

Finally someone that can understand. People should understand that the money reality is not the same for everyone. Players from 2016 can sell a vanity and they farmed 50m+ instantly. But for 2020 onwards players, that's not the case, since their most rare vanitys worth barely 700k. To afford a 1m mon, they had to farm gym 2 days straight. And that just for the mon, i doesn't count the TMs and items for the mons, and even the other 5 mons for the team. That's why people often use 2x31 3x25 mons(budget mons) rather than perfect mons(5x31)

[Munya]

Does not matter, they are plenty affordable as far as we are concerned and they are in, at least one of them is, their second cycle of release.  If this was the first or second month of somethings release it might be a point of discussion but its not. Change the subject.

[Godhelll]

Everyone seem to be happy about Draco Meteor on Hydreigon, nice

[kiwi]

bring back sharpness at 1.5, gallade is far from broken and having custom mechanics is awful

[Frag]

is not broken coz ppl run it adamant to compensate the nerf (pvp statistics), still strong vs stall but lacks speed against offense, back to 1.5 its like buffing atk and speed which is dumb af.

instead of making custom changes better remove this thing already, the adition of a gen 20 ability in our current progress was way more custom than making it 1.4

[Godhelll]

Now without trolling because curiously nobody talks about it; what are the switches to Hydreigon since he got Draco Meteor?

Edited November 26, 2023 by Godhelll

[PoseidonWrath]

2 hours ago, Godhelll said:

Now without trolling because curiously nobody talks about it; what are the switches to Hydreigon since he got Draco Meteor?

there isnt a single  *save* switch vs that monster, im not even have the slight idea what tc is smoking to allow it, there is no Hydreigon thread were we can see some calcs or discuss.

 

but since pvp became kinda dead nobody cares to express their thoughts tbh i remember Gb made a solid post asking one of the Devs for a answer regarding gallade 

but yeah they are doing their best to stay hidden and be invisable like usually

 

tldr: abuse the broken mons they add and the unhealthy meta

 

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by PoseidonWrath

[kiwi]

16 hours ago, Frag said:

is not broken coz ppl run it adamant to compensate the nerf (pvp statistics), still strong vs stall but lacks speed against offense, back to 1.5 its like buffing atk and speed which is dumb af.

instead of making custom changes better remove this thing already, the adition of a gen 20 ability in our current progress was way more custom than making it 1.4

same mons that check at 1.4 do with 1.5 and base 80 is not even fast, plus mediocre physical bulk and 4mvss i cant understand how this was banned in the first place

[Frag]

1 hour ago, kiwi said:

same mons that check at 1.4 do with 1.5 and base 80 is not even fast, plus mediocre physical bulk and 4mvss i cant understand how this was banned in the first place

not fast? it outspeed the most spamed mons in h.o mamos ada, dnite and breloom jolly

[RysPicz]

I believe there's a reason why this is not being discussed, and my opinion is that people simply gave up. No matter what we discuss, what we disagree with, we end up with changes that we ultimately do not want or never asked for. To put it short- we are wasting our time, trying to argument against a decision which strikes us anyway.

 

 

And ofc then we have caio but that's a totally different can of worms...

[gbwead]

Espeon has less physical bulk than Gallade and yet it's still played as a physical wall. Gallade's physicial bulk is really not that bad. I'm not saying 1.5 Sharpness is broken or isn't. I just disagree with the argument that Gallade can be powerful because on the other hand it's paper. Gallade is not paper, it's more bulky than what people claim. 

edit: I used to play Medicham as a physical wall in OU because Psychic / Fighting is an amazing defensive typing. Medicham has 60 base stat HP and 75 base stat Def where as Gallade has 68 base stat HP and 65 base stat Def. These two are really not that far apart.

Edited November 27, 2023 by gbwead

[kiwi]

4 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Espeon has less physical bulk than Gallade and yet it's still played as a physical wall. Gallade's physicial bulk is really not that bad. I'm not saying 1.5 Sharpness is broken or isn't. I just disagree with the argument that Gallade can be powerful because on the other hand it's paper. Gallade is not paper, it's more bulky than what people claim. 

edit: I used to play Medicham as a physical wall in OU because Psychic / Fighting is an amazing defensive typing. Medicham has 60 base stat HP and 75 base stat Def where as Gallade has 68 base stat HP and 65 base stat Def. These two are really not that far apart.

bruh u cant be claiming 68/60 

is not paper, espeon gets full investment in defenses and doesnt take atks very well from from mons that arent walls, and as I said what takes on gallade at 1.4 does at 1.5

5 hours ago, Frag said:

not fast? it outspeed the most spamed mons in h.o mamos ada, dnite and breloom jolly

loom is slow and the other 2 are speedties so yeah not fast

[gbwead]

Just now, kiwi said:

bruh u cant be claiming 68/60 

is not paper, espeon gets full investment in defenses and doesnt take atks very well from from mons that arent walls, and as I said what takes on gallade at 1.4 does at 1.5

It's 68/65 and that's not paper at all. Gallade is only weak to Flying and Ghost. Aside from Skarmory in OU, nothing hits Gallade super effectively on the physical side. Sure, there are some mons that carry acrobatics sometimes like Gliscor and Scizor, but that's pretty much it.

 

252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 109-129 (76.2 - 90.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 121-144 (84.6 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 103-123 (72 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 92-109 (64.3 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 124-147 (86.7 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 91-108 (63.6 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 120-142 (83.9 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Spear (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 129-156 (90.2 - 109%) -- approx. 56.3% chance to OHKO

 

When Gallade without any defensive investment survives or has a decent chance to survive any stab move from physical mons that outspeed it, Gallade is not paper. 

 

Paper would be Kabutops on the special side getting ohko by the vast majority of special attackers in the tier. Paper would be Dugtrio. Paper would be Weavile. Even Darmanitan with 105 base stat HP is more Paper than Gallade, so there is no reason to call Gallade paper. 

 

Gallade is not a glass cannon, it's way way too bulky to be considered one. It's just a strong mon and its defenses are hardly a drawback.

[Ramallero]

10 minutes ago, gbwead said:

 

252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 109-129 (76.2 - 90.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 121-144 (84.6 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 103-123 (72 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 92-109 (64.3 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 124-147 (86.7 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 91-108 (63.6 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 120-142 (83.9 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Icicle Spear (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 129-156 (90.2 - 109%) -- approx. 56.3% chance to OHKO

So all you need is rocks up. Got it 😂

[gbwead]

8 minutes ago, Ramallero said:

So all you need is rocks up. Got it 😂

It's not like leftovers and/or any defensive investment were impossible on Gallade. I'm just showing the best case scenario for the physical mons of the tier vs Gallade and as you can see Gallade is clearly not paper.

Edited November 27, 2023 by gbwead

[kiwi]

42 minutes ago, gbwead said:

 

it's way way too bulky to be considered one

how can u say this when u just posted calcs of it being 2hkod by RESISTED attacks, let's say its as bulky as u say and its hard to revengekill (which it isnt) the same mons that can check it defensively with a 1.4boost will keep doing so with 1.5 so why have it custom changed instead of the way its intended when its clearly not broken