[PvP Updates] Gen 9-2 DLC and Reverse Nerfs

[caioxlive13]

2 hours ago, ZeknShooter said:

Now we should cry about a test suspect on 0.1x+ on GALLADE ou, I think a cry on this is unnecesary.

Do we tell to Gbwead and others that Medicham still hits stronger than gallade on Psychic and Fighting moves, that are when gallade is supposedly broken(who said this to me was Flamhaar, isn't me who are saying) , and Medi is still NU and far away from being broken on OU? Or let them freak out a bit? ( I prefer second option, this is hilarious)

Edited October 7, 2023 by caioxlive13

[NiceRNGbro]

1 hour ago, caioxlive13 said:

and Medi is still NU and far away from being broken? 

Man, no one said that xD Medicham is obviously too much for NU and we all know that, even for me, Medicham is my favorite Pokémon.

 

Medicham just hasn't been there yet due to the TC's rules (set by the staff), otherwise he would definitely have left by now, like reckless staraptor UU a few months ago, You should stop thinking you're smart and sarcastic just because you're talking to people with an IQ, something you don't have

 

The complaint about sharpness is that it doesn't make sense, it wouldn't be a Pokémon, it shouldn't exist in Gen 5, but if it does, 1.3x or 1.5x, using 1.4x opens the door to other pathetic things that can be implemented in the future, no why 1.4x gallade will be broken or something, no one complained about that.

 

Hanging out with Pachima and others doesn't make you smart, hugs 

Edited October 7, 2023 by NiceRNGbro
Hez

[caioxlive13]

48 minutes ago, NiceRNGbro said:

Man, no one said that xD Medicham is obviously too much for NU and we all know that, even for me, Medicham is my favorite Pokémon.

I'm saying about OU, medicham hits harder than gallade on the stabs, the thing that Gallade is more stronger, and medicham not only is allowed on OU but is considered very mediocre on tier(even when gallade was not present)

Quote

You should stop thinking you're smart and sarcastic just because you're talking to people with an IQ, something you don't have

If i doesn't have a IQ, you has way less. At least i'm not blind to actual OU problems and doesn't giving a s*** about them, also blaming who bring those problem to the table. (Yes, i'm talking about Regen and Wish + Tp chansey. I do not forget about the type of comments people did on the post Keldeo did. More specifically, what DoubleJ posted exactly.)

Edited October 7, 2023 by caioxlive13

[TohnR]

4 hours ago, ZeknShooter said:

I think this is a fine decision. come on guys. TC have putted Salamence and Lucario in UU before, obviously it didn't work haha.

Most clueless guy I've ever seen on here

[RysPicz]

19 minutes ago, TohnR said:

Most clueless guy I've ever seen on here

I think you're forgetting about someone

[TohnR]

6 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

I think you're forgetting about someone

I absolutely don't see who you mean 🙃 Besides there's always worse, doesn't mean it's fine to act like all's good when devs are literally shitting on the playerbase because they randomly decided they're the balance team at Game Freak now

[DoubleJ]

Mass x Acceleration = Gallade

MC^2 = Sharpness

 

Gallade x Sharpness = Force × Energy = 🐐 

[RysPicz]

10 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Mass x Acceleration = Gallade

MC^2 = Sharpness

 

Gallade x Sharpness = Force × Energy = 🐐 

@gbwead your assistance is needed

[EmilioGarras]

they gonna calculate the mass of the sun at this point to prove gallade need to lower 20 points in attack

[BeluMEX]

I no longer play Pokemmo; the changes have been detrimental in the only tier that interested me. Firstly, the introduction of Gallade's hidden ability was a mistake. Following those changes, the Tier Council has been making questionable decisions regarding lower tiers. Some noteworthy examples include the sudden drops of Venomoth and Venusaur to NU for just a month, forcing breeders to invest in raising them, only to see them rise back the following month. Furthermore, I've read that Medicham, Milotic, and others have also dropped, which is truly absurd.

We were fine with Gallade without its hidden ability. It allowed us to handle Blaziken, sun teams, rain teams, 6 walls, venusaur and other shits effectively and counteract Bronzor spam with the option to use Gallade with Substitute and Bulk Up. Now, that combination no longer exists, and only Adamant or Jolly is used. I believe that, during this period, the tier changes have been somewhat ridiculous, especially in recent months. They are burying the NU tier further and further.

I appreciate not playing Pokemmo anymore, but I think, at the very least out of respect for new players, they should avoid making these temporary (1-month) changes, which seem to have become repetitive while I have not been actively playing.

P.D.: Regarding the Tier Council, I have always believed that its members should have knowledge of all tiers to prevent changes like "Blastoise" suddenly breaking the meta in NU, only to have it return to UU in November for being too many strong. 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by BeluMEX

[Ziiiiio]

5小时前，BeluMEX 说：

they should avoid making these temporary (1-month) changes

I agree with extending the change cycle, as a longer period of time can make TC's decisions more rigorous.

 

This is undoubtedly unfriendly to new players who want to try under tier. The monthly tier change results in a much higher cost of money on breading and harder to build a team in under tiers. Once tier change comes the old team need 100% remake.

 

Being able to make some changes to keep more players in the under tier can also solve the problem of requiring too long waiting times for matches.

 

 

 

[EmilioGarras]

8 hours ago, BeluMEX said:

Some noteworthy examples include the sudden drops of Venomoth and Venusaur to NU for just a month, forcing breeders to invest in raising them, only to see them rise back the following month. Furthermore, I've read that Medicham, Milotic, and others have also dropped, which is truly absurd.

 

 

I agree with this, its the reason I also avoid competitive now because I see every month some pokes just get banned when I start to adapt to a team estructure, but with some being switched monthly is very ridiculous. Gligar going up and down the tier makes me not want to use it in NU when its available or just not consider when team building because of the instability. 

 

 

[pachima]

52 minutes ago, EmilioGarras said:

I agree with this, its the reason I also avoid competitive now because I see every month some pokes just get banned when I start to adapt to a team estructure, but with some being switched monthly is very ridiculous. Gligar going up and down the tier makes me not want to use it in NU when its available or just not consider when team building because of the instability. 

 

 

The issue is that they insist on keeping the same monthly data for movements in tiers where there are very few games. It is even worse when you consider Munya outright ignores a significant part of this data by scrapping the last week of each month's worth of data. 

 

They have changed the movement system, but they didn't even touch the main problem. We are giving too much weight on the last month of the season, where coincidentally is when less matches are played and less reliable the statistics are. No matter what random numbers they decide to pick, this system will just promote random drops and ups at the third month, that shouldn't happen, and that will most likely return to their original tier by next season, rippling the affected tier for 3 months for no reason at all.

 

This system may work for OU, since there is a much bigger sample there, but is extremely ineffective in lower tiers. Changing the threshold might slightly reduce the negative impact, but ultimately doesn't fix the main issue. 

 

 

I would suggest creating a different system for UU-NU, where movements can only happen at the third month of each season, averaging the data over a much more significant sample (3 months), as well as reducing the Yo-Yo shenanigans that have been happening for a long long time. 

This change would not only use a much more reliable sample when factoring movement thresholds in lower tiers, but also severely reduces the negative impact of ignoring the last few days of each month. It also minimizes Yo-yo movements, overall gives people the time to adapt to any changes, and minimizes the impact of anomaly usages. It also minimizes the issue of having a non-linear match count in those tiers, where it drops after the first month.

[gbwead]

12 minutes ago, pachima said:

I would suggest creating a different system for UU-NU, where movements can only happen at the third month of each season, averaging the data over a much more significant sample (3 months), as well as reducing the Yo-Yo shenanigans that have been happening for a long long time. 

This doesn't work. If devs plan to slow down with their constant drop by drop content release, your suggestion would be fine, but I don't think that's their plan at all.

 

The issue with UU-NU is that devs release new features constantly and that creates a butterfly effect for lower tiers. The data from 3 months ago is completly irrelevant when making usage movements for right now. Hidden Abilities are getting released drop by drop, so UU will always be adjusting to what goes in OU. Suicune gets released, that changes the usage structure of OU. Raikou, same thing. Entei same thing. Gallade Sharpness. etc. These things get released every now and then, so you can't possibly make usage movements based on data where these things did not exist. 

Movements need to be based on large amount of relevant data. Movements based on what happens 3 months ago is not a good idea. However, I do agree that it is absolutely absurd that Munya disregard the last week of each month when making movements. That would be the easiest thing to change in order to get more data for UU-NU movements.

If we want more relevant data, we need imo the following things:

• Movements based on the usage of an entire month, not just 3 weeks (that's so lazy).
• Elo weighed usage
• OU-UU movements not happening at the same time as UU-NU movements
  • OU-UU movements should happen at the start of the month
  • UU-NU movements should happen at the mid-month mark 
• Removing or reforming Randoms

 

 

[pachima]

8 minutes ago, gbwead said:

This doesn't work. If devs plan to slow down with their constant drop by drop content release, your suggestion would be fine, but I don't think that's their plan at all.

I agree but I'm not sure they will keep adding stuff as much as they have been recently. Also the new DLC updates won't be nowhere as metawarping as previous ones here. Legendaries are a new feature but I'm sure they will be added really scarcely from now on, thus not negatively impacting the data consistently enough to discredit the average system. Most relevant HAs are here already besides the most broken ones, which I'm positive won't be coming anytime soon. 

 

I could be wrong, but I really can't see new features being added as much as they have been until now. 

The game is a really moneygrabber, and I'm sure they plan on dragging that for as long as they can, in which case they have to space out the remaining new features, since those are very limited.

[caioxlive13]

On 10/4/2023 at 6:48 PM, VadimEmpoleon said:

Adding Draco Meteor Hydreigon doesn't make any sense even if it's a test, it was already too strong without access to Nasty Plot, it can just spam Draco Meteor and it will hit hard any mon even if it is Metagross, Magnezone, Scizor or any other steel type, Chansey and Blissey can easily be dealt with Nasty Plot. With access to Nasty Plot, Superpower, Flamethrower and a lot of other useful moves like Roost or Stealth Rock it can be at the same time too strong as a sweeper and a good utility mon. Now we will get another test (probably for a lot of time just like Gallade last time) and will have to wait until the tier is fixed again.

 

Didn't see that due to extreme overflow of... excuse me the words i'm using munya... dumb comments that are purely hate against other and doesn't contribute at all to the discussion, even worse then i with small derail on my posts.

About the post i'm replying: Hydreigon is kind of a big deal using NP or not, because there is some checks of it with speed higher than Hydreigon's 98 base. If you're running scarf you're limiting your dmg very hard, AV users can handle the dmg. If you use NP you can't use scarf and are susceptible to outspeeds. Garchomp could kill hydreigon unless he predicts the garchomp's entry, and kill it before. "Just run Wacan Berry"(I'm not 100% sure if this is the berry that weakens supereffective dragon-type damage) some Garchomps already run Dual Chop over DClaw for nite and this would make it be more used(The berry is only able to weaken the first hit. The second, no.). Even if you survive, any priority at this point would kill hydreigon.

Edited October 8, 2023 by caioxlive13

[VadimEmpoleon]

2 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

Didn't see that due to extreme overflow of... excuse me the words i'm using munya... dumb comments that are purely hate against other and doesn't contribute at all to the discussion, even worse then i with small derail on my posts.

About the post i'm replying: Hydreigon is kind of a big deal using NP or not, because there is some checks of it with speed higher than Hydreigon's 98 base. If you're running scarf you're limiting your dmg very hard, AV users can handle the dmg. If you use NP you can't use scarf and are susceptible to outspeeds. Garchomp could kill hydreigon unless he predicts the garchomp's entry, and kill it before. "Just run Wacan Berry"(I'm not 100% sure if this is the berry that weakens supereffective dragon-type damage) some Garchomps already run Dual Chop over DClaw for nite and this would make it be more used(The berry is only able to weaken the first hit. The second, no.). Even if you survive, any priority at this point would kill hydreigon.

Hydreigon can be revenged killed easily but it can kill anything just spamming Draco Meteor, and the few things that can survive it, like Chansey, can be eliminated with other moves like Nasty Plot. It has a very good movepool and it can't be trapped with Dugtrio or Tyranitar/Weavile since Pursuit won't be a big problem for it, it can just switch and kill another mon the next time it comes to the field.

 

Some calcs with Timid Life Orb Hydreigon:

 

Scizor: 252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 84-100 (57.5 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Magnezone: 252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magnezone: 77-90 (53.1 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Metagross: 252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 77-90 (49.6 - 58%) -- 65.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

AV Mienshao: 252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Mienshao: 94-110 (54.6 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Chansey with Draco Meteor: 252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 90-107 (25.2 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Chansey with Focus Blast: 252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 112-133 (31.3 - 37.2%) -- 71% chance to 3HKO

Gallade: 252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 125-148 (87.4 - 103.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

Multiscale Dragonite: 252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 142-168 (85 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Conkeldurr: 252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Conkeldurr: 196-231 (108.8 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

AV Amoonguss: 252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss: 78-94 (35.2 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

[Bertolfoso]

On 10/4/2023 at 9:11 PM, Lumiere said:

Movepool updates:

  Hide contents

Aura Sphere: Alakazam

Just wanted to note that zam is not in gen9 so it can't have movepool buffs, before it gets added by accident (zam fans seethe)

[NiceRNGbro]

2 hours ago, Bertolfoso said:

Just wanted to note that zam is not in gen9 so it can't have movepool buffs, before it gets added by accident (zam fans seethe)

Man shut up let it happen...i dont want miss Focus Blast anymore

[Luke]

I have a serious question: why do the higher-ups never take credit for these decisions? Why is it always put onto TC to announce these changes, which they didn't ask for? Why can't the devs come out and own the fact that THEY are doing this? Gallade is FINE. There is absolutely no reason to change it, what is the specific reason to change to 1.4x damage.. Which as gb said "There is no dmg mechanic in the history of pokemon battling that gives a 1.4 boost"

 

TC didn't want healing moves to be nerfed; in fact, we were in unanimous agreement that it would be bad for the health of PVP to add them. What happened? It got added anyway. I see parallels here: the current TC clearly doesn't want this change, yet they have to present it like a politician playing both sides 'The man has chosen' 'The choice came from above us' while making a thread endorsing it as if it is the best decision possible.

 

This system is completely backwards. There is no explanation for any of this happening; there is no sound logic or reasoning for any decisions made nowadays. TC is absolutely in free fall.

 

@Devs, listen to the TC. It's what they are there for. If you are just going to ignore them, then remove the TC and act like actual grown-ups. Present these choices because it's what YOU want for your game, and take the backlash, as there is not an ounce of competitive integrity in this decision. Instead of forcing others to take the criticism for you as if this is a decision made with the health of competitive MMO tiers in mind, how about you own the fact this is a decision purely based on your vision for the game.

 

It is really sad because I had hopes for the meta at one point, and now I have absolutely zero interest in how poorly it's all being handled. I have ideas for solutions, but I won't waste any time presenting them to deaf ears.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Luke

[OuplayerS]

Well,  this change is fine to me.

1.4 sharpness  is acceptable. In addition, it will influence the meta, so that there will not be so many stall teams. I strongly dislike the game that is boring and can be continued until the 1 hour time limit.

Also the Gallade is weak facing to most of attacker, like Scizor, Garchomp, Dragonite..even gengar. The 1.4 Sharpness will not change this result, its disadvantages are still remain. However, it will benefit the meta, the game meta will be more suitable for most of players, so I think that is a good change.

What's more, there are still many pokemon can stall the Gallade, I think that's fine.

I stand with TC this time, and believe it will benefit the meta.

[razimove]

5 hours ago, OuplayerS said:

Well,  this change is fine to me.

1.4 sharpness  is acceptable. In addition, it will influence the meta, so that there will not be so many stall teams. I strongly dislike the game that is boring and can be continued until the 1 hour time limit.

Also the Gallade is weak facing to most of attacker, like Scizor, Garchomp, Dragonite..even gengar. The 1.4 Sharpness will not change this result, its disadvantages are still remain. However, it will benefit the meta, the game meta will be more suitable for most of players, so I think that is a good change.

What's more, there are still many pokemon can stall the Gallade, I think that's fine.

I stand with TC this time, and believe it will benefit the meta.

ah yes, gallade is so weak facing those, which one of those can enter on a gallade? 

[gatocacheton]

1 hour ago, razimove said:

ah yes, gallade is so weak facing those, which one of those can enter on a gallade? 

Probably the same amount that can enter on a Hydreigon Draco meteor atm... People say we missing the OP HA and that's fine they say, i have no idea what are those, but i do see we missing a lot of HA that Will make many Pokémon usable atm, how can a meta work when you pick w/e you like pass gen 5 AND just randomly implement It.. of course It Will make so many issues... It's simple logic, what have no logic it's to give a Pokémon a gen 9 recent HA, but deny It to others... All for the sake of the meta? What meta Is that? We lack many tools for handle gen 6+ stuffs, now i am not agains add all this, i am just saying that Is normal we have this issues, and this is just the beginning because don't matter how much nerfs AND bans TC implement, if we want the game to last 10+ More years, we need to keep adding things, and don't be silly all of you atm the speed they being add, Is slow.

Edited October 9, 2023 by gatocacheton

[OuplayerS]

3 hours ago, razimove said:

ah yes, gallade is so weak facing those, which one of those can enter on a gallade? 

Of course It takes risks to switch a high speed attacker facing gallade. Simply like you want to enter a high speed attacker facing on Conkeldurr with Guts and flame orb.

[Ziiiiio]

Ninjask can win Latias, let's have Latias as well